Thread: Komodo 12.2 stops of dynamic range in CineD test.

Reply to Thread
Page 10 of 11 FirstFirst ... 67891011 LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 104
  1. #91  
    Senior Member Christoffer Glans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    4,760
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek Zakowicz View Post
    I'm just surprised that after 15 years people are still up in arms about RED marketing...
    Not all are. From everything I've seen I can deduce for a fact that Red just looked at the Xyla chart and said "16,5+ stops". That's how they "market" stops. It's accurate... from a visual perspective of judging it, but I don't find it rather accurate since it doesn't care for any unbiased testing that's being done. I think Red has one of the best DR sensor systems, but I would like them to be a bit more honest because it's clearly not 16,5+ stops in the way any other measures stops.

    That doesn't mean, however, that tests ignoring the pipeline that get numbers under what we would actually get in real world situations should be considered true either. It rather means that, ignoring marketing, no one really tests the true performance or get any results that have any truth-value either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Allen View Post
    I'm not. I just mention it because people may wonder why I'm on the forum but rent Alexa instead, because I prefer to rent cameras made by a camera company that lies less.

    Don't get me wrong, I like RED. RED's just like your one buddy whom you like a lot but can't their hype take seriously all the time.

    Bruce Allen
    www.bruceallen.tv
    Arri lies a lot too. Everyone lies. Their statements about resolution and subsampling over the last ten years is utter bullshit. If you think they are any better, you are as biased as everyone else.

    I too actually like Arri more than Red. Mostly based on what I've actually worked with. I love Arri's color science and I've said numerous times that when Arri gets to true 4K+ resolutions the game will change... which it essentially has as companies like Netflix start using LF more now, almost automatically when they were approved.

    Arri is just the king of sensor technology because of their color science and actual result. But... they're overpriced and aimed at just the top tiered. I can't afford an Alexa LF, but I can afford a Red, especially a Komodo. It enables me to do my stuff and it's more than enough to cover the need for great images. I've said it many time; if someone is unable to create their photographic/cinematic images with a Komodo, they are just bad cinematographers or directors. Komodo is more than enough to realize a vision, so you don't need an Alexa. Alexa is only worth it for budgeted productions that can afford their pipeline, Red however, enables more for less, for more people.

    It's so important to include all of these details into everything. Arri doesn't enable anyone to do movies or creative things, Red actually does this. It's the main primary reason I'm even here and has been for the last 13 years. Arri may be the king of motion pictures right now, but Red enables more to be creative. That's pretty much a fact.
    "Using any digital cinema camera today is like sending your 35mm rolls to a standard lab. -Using a Red is like owning a dark room."
    Red Weapon 6K #00600 Red Komodo #002397
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #92  
    Christopher, I completely agree that RED has changed the game and made things better.

    I think you're letting your emotions cloud your judgement though. I don't know why you decided that Komodo is somehow the bar where "if someone is unable to create their photographic/cinematic images with a Komodo, they are just bad cinematographers or directors" to use your words.

    Sure we all agree with that point. But I'd go further and say you could actually use a cheaper camera too and still make the same argument. Like a Panasonic S5 for $1500 for example... if you want to go crazy add a Ninja V and record 5.9K raw! Also I don't think there is any law that says filmmakers need to buy brand shiny new cameras. The choice isn't buy Komodo or buy Arri LF or don't make your film. You can buy used or rent too. In Los Angeles an Alexa Classic WITH Odyssey raw recorder is under $100/day. 3-day week or weekend...

    Overall in the lifecycle of the project Arri often saves me money vs RED. Easier to grade, easier workflow, etc. More man-hours saved.

    And back to latitude, yes I do think even the old Alexas hold up.

    Bruce Allen
    www.bruceallen.tv
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3. #93  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2017
    Posts
    499
    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio Perez View Post
    Komodos are being used everywhere producing broadcast and cinema content. Its selling like Hotcakes. I've used one and it intercuts almost seamlessly with my Monstro. I would assume the professional world thinks what this camera brings to the table is more than enough.

    Honestly nowadays you get to a point you have to trust the company that makes the camera. Red is a Digital Cinema Company. Just like Arri. They are on the business of making professional cameras targeted to motion pictures and high end, broadcast and comercial content. They have a name to defend, a brand to keep. Its their bread and butter. Other companies, like Sony, Panasonic, Canon etc. have various different divisions and target markets, from consumers, prosumers, to higher end markets. Each of their offerings is well defined in category and you should expect performance related to these target points.

    The Komodo however was developed as a B cam or a camera that could intercut with the other A cams well, with action in mind. Like Jarred said, something that would survive the mere seconds audiences accept from Prosumer and POV cameras in High End Productions. The internal REDCODE RAW compression in the Komodo is superior to every single offering in he price range for any other manufacturer not only in the price range, but several thousand dollars above. The global shutter is a unique feature that opens amazing creative possibilities. the dynamic Range? According to Red, close to Helium. All of this for 5000 USD. Its an incredible deal.

    I say try the camera yourself, like Bob Gundu said in the beginning.
    It’s six thousand dollars, not five. The “discount” many waited for and few got felt like an f you and an inconvenience to those at red, nothing more. The window was not clear, the site mysteriously stopped taking orders in its final week? Really not a good look for red. For what could have been 1/6th the loss they now lose 100% by people going to other cameras. As multiple REDUSERs have stated they did. Really too bad. At least Jason mamoa and you tubers have cameras (to flip). Unfortunately for true red users and hydrogen believers and purchasers we are left behind.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #94  
    Senior Member Bastien Tribalat's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Cannes area, France
    Posts
    813
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dease View Post
    It’s six thousand dollars, not five. The “discount” many waited for and few got felt like an f you and an inconvenience to those at red, nothing more. The window was not clear, the site mysteriously stopped taking orders in its final week? Really not a good look for red. For what could have been 1/6th the loss they now lose 100% by people going to other cameras. As multiple REDUSERs have stated they did. Really too bad. At least Jason mamoa and you tubers have cameras (to flip). Unfortunately for true red users and hydrogen believers and purchasers we are left behind.
    The site did not mysteriously stop taking orders. Jarred made the announcement about it on social media (like here)


    As for buying a Komodo, you can go the one of the many RED Authorized dealers (TRM in France, CVP and ProAv in the UK, B&H in the U.S, just to name a few). Sure, there's a waiting list. But that's life. There's a waiting list too for Canon C70, Sony FX6, the Kinefinity Mavo Edge 8K Camera did not launch either as planned and is delayed way later, Blackmagic's URSA 12K pancake maker (don't worry I like BM products, just not this particular one) seems to be mostly unavailable as well and so on. You may have heard about a pandemic somewhere on the planet that may cause delays to a lot of manufacturing (Sony and Microsoft can't keep up with the demands for their new consoles, right now you mostly cannot buy one of the new high end GPUs from AMD and Nvidia without paying way too much for it or waiting a ton...). RED, as stated earlier in 2020, had to change a lot (if not all) its manufacturing partners to avoid delays and shortage at most of their abilities. (as far as I know, they changed their electronic components providers from Asia to Mexico) So yeah, it's frustrating to wait or whatever, but that's what happens when you have a global pandemic slowing everything down and a demand way higher than what you can make daily.

    As for "the true red users" : either they already own a DSMC2 or an older model which are still perfectly good tools to work with, or they can rent one to get the job done no problem. Because by definition, if they don't, they are not "true red users", they're just "first time red users" or "or first time red owners" and that's totally not the same. But I think the "true" users are enjoying their Komodo. At least the Matrix 4 crew, Soderbergh and the others big CINEMA and TV projects are.
    VIDEO EDITING - COLOR GRADING - VFX
    APPLE FINAL CUT PRO, AVID MEDIA COMPOSER
    ADOBE CREATIVE CLOUD, DAVINCI RESOLVE, REDCINE X PRO...
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #95  
    Senior Member Michael Hastings's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    4,118
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dease View Post
    It’s six thousand dollars, not five. The “discount” many waited for and few got felt like an f you and an inconvenience to those at red, nothing more. The window was not clear, the site mysteriously stopped taking orders in its final week? Really not a good look for red. For what could have been 1/6th the loss they now lose 100% by people going to other cameras. As multiple REDUSERs have stated they did. Really too bad. At least Jason mamoa and you tubers have cameras (to flip). Unfortunately for true red users and hydrogen believers and purchasers we are left behind.
    " "

    ----


    Quote Originally Posted by Bastien Tribalat View Post
    -
    As for "the true red users" : either they already own a DSMC2 or an older model which are still perfectly good tools to work with, or they can rent one to get the job done no problem. Because by definition, if they don't, they are not "true red users", they're just "first time red users" or "or first time red owners" and that's totally not the same.
    I was a "true Reduser" before all but 205 before me. Sold my Epic-W anticipating buying Komodo at the Hydrogen discount. Was put off a bit by how it was handled and then it stretched out so long (while 1000+ "who knows Redusers" got theirs) that I bought an R5.

    Not sure what it will take with DSMC3 to come back to being a "True Reduser" - lot of choices out there these days from startups to companies that have been around for decades and will be around for more decades.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek Zakowicz View Post
    I'm just surprised that after 15 years people are still up in arms about RED marketing...
    It's not just marketing anymore - it's customer service and how actual "true redusers" got shuffled to the side - and what that portends for the future.
    Save the Sharks
    __________________
    RED Komodo soon. Original Manufacturer of RedOne & Epic/Scarlet/Weapon Underwater housings
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #96  
    Senior Member Jacek Zakowicz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,476
    That brings this quote to mind "you can't please all the people all the time but you can please some people some time" or something like that ;-)
    Jacek Zakowicz, Optitek-dot-org, jacek2@optitek.org
    Professional Broadcast and Digital Cinema Equipment
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #97  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    163
    Strangely enough I thought this thread was about dynamic range. Turns out it’s about a disenfranchised group of self-purported elitist that’s call themselves “The True Red Users”
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #98  
    Senior Member Jacek Zakowicz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,476
    Quote Originally Posted by Han Vogen View Post
    Strangely enough I thought this thread was about dynamic range. Turns out it’s about a disenfranchised group of self-purported elitist that’s call themselves “The True Red Users”
    To be fair the brand loyalty and the early adopters hold high value according to RED. At least they used to...
    Jacek Zakowicz, Optitek-dot-org, jacek2@optitek.org
    Professional Broadcast and Digital Cinema Equipment
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #99  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    163
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacek Zakowicz View Post
    To be fair the brand loyalty and the early adopters hold high value according to RED. At least they used to...
    Please enlighten me as to how that impacts dynamic range?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #100  
    Senior Member Jacek Zakowicz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    3,476
    Quote Originally Posted by Han Vogen View Post
    Please enlighten me as to how that impacts dynamic range?
    Right after you explain your "elitist" comment impact on the dynamic range ;-)
    Jacek Zakowicz, Optitek-dot-org, jacek2@optitek.org
    Professional Broadcast and Digital Cinema Equipment
    Reply With Quote  
     

Tags for this Thread

View Tag Cloud

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts