Thread: The Look of RED

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  1. #1 The Look of RED 
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    What is the scientific reason RED looks so filmic (not noise or grain but depth to the image itself) vs Blackmagic (not even worth mentioning canon as Iíve never seen anything good from it) Even ARRI looks like video next to red? Good color sure but why can a company like Blackmagic with their 12k still itís looks video? I think the future is a more video like look like epic W was but why? Is red a different kind of sensor than Blackmagic in design, layers of colors I mean as red users I think we know how good red looks and how shit it kind of seems EVERYTHING else does generally? I mention this before other companies images look Ďthiní like they could break and itís just not there. Compare to Philís blacksmith swordsmith video looks like a bazooka at an anthill. Anthill being the images from all other manufactures.

    He did 3D lut I suppose is it something in that.
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  3. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Conrad View Post
    I see youíve been using red since late 2017. About ten years late to the party even then so I can think you donít have experience with red raw. 16bit...
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    Senior Member Blair S. Paulsen's Avatar
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    There are several aspects of the RED camera architecture that impact image characteristics. Additionally, to one degree or another, they are interactive.

    That said, IMHO, the key is that RED/Graeme use conservative image construction algorithms to avoid aliasing. Theory being, that downscaling the oversampled image will yield plenty of genuine edge definition. Many other systems do some sharpening upstream from quantization which can generate ringing on high contrast transitions - an artifact commonly associated with a video look.

    Cheers - #19
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    Senior Member Karim D. Ghantous's Avatar
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    I also imagine that the wavelet compression may have something to do with it. Maybe. I think a lot of systems have nice images. I like the GH5, for example, from what I've seen. I wouldn't knock Blackmagic as a lot of people love the look from those cameras.

    ARRI's image is great, too, and certainly does not look like video. Although personally I am not sure that you could justify ARRI anymore, given that we have Red on the high end (not to mention that 9K IMAX camera) and all sorts of nice cameras on the low end. But you tell me.

    LUTs have a lot to do with it. If you have sufficient information, you can make one thing look like another thing. To a point. LUTs won't fix DR, or rolling shutter, or other things like that. Those are just observations. I'm not a colorist.

    I shoot photos only, and there is no such thing as a 'video look' to digital photos these days. Of course you could dig down to the bottom of the camera barrel. There are some real stinkers down there!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dease View Post
    I see you’ve been using red since late 2017. About ten years late to the party even then so I can think you don’t have experience with red raw. 16bit...
    You might want to look again.
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    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Been a few years and a bunch of shoots, but the LUT I created for Forged was based around a general color target I created for Kodak some years back for Vision 3 emulation, with some tweaks specifically for Forged. Pre-IPP2 days and everything was REDlogFilm back then, i.e. Cineon Log which all my LUT work for the previous 15 years was based around, so fairly easy color workflow.

    First pass color correction was done all via the REDCODE RAW settings. White balance mainly. 3D LUT was applied via Lumetri in Adobe Premiere Pro.

    The grade was pretty straight forward, but at the time 8K was new as well as 8K to 8K and 8K to 4K workflows. I remember doing various encodes, scaling, and processing tests.

    Really enjoyed that opportunity and the shoot. Looking back now it barely even happened due to Tony's schedule and only having that prototype Dragon for such a short time. Wasn't easy. Just me, my 1st AC, and Tony for a few days. 4 lights with daylight occasionally. Nila Boxers and Litepanel Astras. Nice to be involved with a smidge of the build process too to make that deadline. Didn't have time or space in his old shop for big camera movements, kept it pretty simple.

    Can't stress enough how pumped I was and still am about VV. Been really wanting this as a format in digital cinema done right for many years. We had a VistaVision camera in the 2000s that could crank up to 72fps and I fell deeply in love with it. That camera rigged up and loaded was well over 40lbs. DSMC2 obviously is much easier on the arms, back, and body.
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    2X RED Monstro 8K VV Bodies, 1X RED Komodo, and a lot of things to use with them.

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    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  8. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phil Holland View Post
    Been a few years and a bunch of shoots, but the LUT I created for Forged was based around a general color target I created for Kodak some years back for Vision 3 emulation, with some tweaks specifically for Forged. Pre-IPP2 days and everything was REDlogFilm back then, i.e. Cineon Log which all my LUT work for the previous 15 years was based around, so fairly easy color workflow.

    First pass color correction was done all via the REDCODE RAW settings. White balance mainly. 3D LUT was applied via Lumetri in Adobe Premiere Pro.

    The grade was pretty straight forward, but at the time 8K was new as well as 8K to 8K and 8K to 4K workflows. I remember doing various encodes, scaling, and processing tests.

    Really enjoyed that opportunity and the shoot. Looking back now it barely even happened due to Tony's schedule and only having that prototype Dragon for such a short time. Wasn't easy. Just me, my 1st AC, and Tony for a few days. 4 lights with daylight occasionally. Nila Boxers and Litepanel Astras. Nice to be involved with a smidge of the build process too to make that deadline. Didn't have time or space in his old shop for big camera movements, kept it pretty simple.

    Can't stress enough how pumped I was and still am about VV. Been really wanting this as a format in digital cinema done right for many years. We had a VistaVision camera in the 2000s that could crank up to 72fps and I fell deeply in love with it. That camera rigged up and loaded was well over 40lbs. DSMC2 obviously is much easier on the arms, back, and body.
    Forged is a pinnacle in red imaging.
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  9. #9  
    Moderator Phil Holland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Dease View Post
    Forged is a pinnacle in red imaging.
    https://www.red.com/shot-on-red

    Queens Gambit looks pretty nice too :)
    Phil Holland - Cinematographer - Los Angeles
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    2X RED Monstro 8K VV Bodies, 1X RED Komodo, and a lot of things to use with them.

    Data Sheets and Notes:
    Red Weapon/DSMC2
    Red Dragon
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  10. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karim D. Ghantous View Post
    Although personally I am not sure that you could justify ARRI anymore, given that we have Red on the high end (not to mention that 9K IMAX camera) and all sorts of nice cameras on the low end. But you tell me.
    The vast majority of productions do justify using an Arri camera
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