5D II Zone Plate...

Jannard · 12-01-2008, 05:40 PM

Just as a reference, this is a Zone Plate shot with the Canon 5D II. Pretty easy to see what's going on with row-skipping. Getting motion from a slow clock-speed sensor is... well.

Jim

Jason Ing · 12-01-2008, 05:44 PM

Butt ugly.

Is there a Red One version?

Bruce Allen · 12-01-2008, 06:03 PM

Haha, now you have to train your focus puller to miss a little bit in order to prevent this ;)

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

Daniel Browning · 12-01-2008, 06:53 PM

Here's the above image with a gaussian blur and ImageMagick Lanczos resample to DVD size:

Inexpensive, large, quality: pick any two.

Canon picked cheap and large, so quality went out the window.

RED is planning large and quality (FF35) or cheap and quality (2/3").

Graeme Nattress · 12-01-2008, 07:06 PM

Ooo! That's ugly. You could have warned me Jim. I think I nearly threw up...

Graeme

Jason Ing · 12-01-2008, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Browning

Here's the above image with a gaussian blur and ImageMagick Lanczos resample to DVD size:

Inexpensive, large, quality: pick any two.

Canon picked cheap and large, so quality went out the window.

RED is planning large and quality (FF35) or cheap and quality (2/3").

Still butt ugly.

Looks like my mom's third generation vhs copy of a TV show recording.

Tom Lowe · 12-01-2008, 07:53 PM

So are they skipping, like, every other pixel?

Sensor resolution is stated at 5616 x 3744 (21.0 MP).

Mitch Gross · 12-01-2008, 07:56 PM

Interesting, but I'm still not sure about the line skipping. There can be other causes for this, although it may partially attributable to line skipping. Either way an artifact is an artifact.

Martin Stevens · 12-01-2008, 07:58 PM

Yes, the Canon is not the best.....but it is better than HDV. Yes????

pango · 12-01-2008, 07:59 PM

Let us be explicit on what is obvious to Jim.

Surely you noticed that the Moiré Pattern is not symmetric (horizontal and vertical interference is not the same). This would suggest that

(a) every third line in the 16/9 part of the sensor is read
(b) the lines are read completely and resampled to 1920
(c) luminance and color are interpolated on line level from the rgbgrgbg... pattern

Yes?

(d) These lines compose the image to be compressed, maybe after applying some filters.

5D II users should definitely know this, since they must be scared of horizontal and nearly horizontal lines, less of vertical lines. Such an information should figure in the user manual, really.

12-01-2008, 05:40 PM	#1
Jannard Red Leader Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,438	5D II Zone Plate... Just as a reference, this is a Zone Plate shot with the Canon 5D II. Pretty easy to see what's going on with row-skipping. Getting motion from a slow clock-speed sensor is... well. Jim __________________ "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..." We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude.

12-01-2008, 06:53 PM	#4
Daniel Browning Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 598	Here's the above image with a gaussian blur and ImageMagick Lanczos resample to DVD size: Inexpensive, large, quality: pick any two. Canon picked cheap and large, so quality went out the window. RED is planning large and quality (FF35) or cheap and quality (2/3"). __________________ --Daniel Browning

12-01-2008, 07:06 PM	#5
Graeme Nattress RED Problem Solver Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 4,035	Ooo! That's ugly. You could have warned me Jim. I think I nearly threw up... Graeme __________________ www.red.com - 5k Digital Cinema Camera Science enables stories. Stories drive science FLUT™, Image Processing, Colour Science and Demosaic Algorithms, RED4K delivery

12-01-2008, 07:53 PM	#7
Tom Lowe Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: somewhere worshiping Terrence Malick Posts: 6,231	So are they skipping, like, every other pixel? Sensor resolution is stated at 5616 x 3744 (21.0 MP). __________________ Timescapes.org/blog twitter.com/timescapes

12-01-2008, 07:56 PM	#8
Mitch Gross REDuser Sponsor Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 3,029	Interesting, but I'm still not sure about the line skipping. There can be other causes for this, although it may partially attributable to line skipping. Either way an artifact is an artifact. __________________ Mitch Gross Applications Specialist Abel Cine Tech mitch@abelcine.com 212-462-0100

12-01-2008, 05:44 PM	#2
Jason Ing Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,641	Butt ugly. Is there a Red One version?

12-01-2008, 06:03 PM	#3
Bruce Allen Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,659	Haha, now you have to train your focus puller to miss a little bit in order to prevent this ;) Bruce Allen www.boacinema.com

12-01-2008, 07:58 PM	#9
Martin Stevens Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 247	Yes, the Canon is not the best.....but it is better than HDV. Yes????

12-01-2008, 07:59 PM	#10
pango Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 54	not symmetric Let us be explicit on what is obvious to Jim. Surely you noticed that the Moiré Pattern is not symmetric (horizontal and vertical interference is not the same). This would suggest that (a) every third line in the 16/9 part of the sensor is read (b) the lines are read completely and resampled to 1920 (c) luminance and color are interpolated on line level from the rgbgrgbg... pattern Yes? (d) These lines compose the image to be compressed, maybe after applying some filters. 5D II users should definitely know this, since they must be scared of horizontal and nearly horizontal lines, less of vertical lines. Such an information should figure in the user manual, really.

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