MUST SEE, Tech Demo at IBC! - Page 3

Jack Kelly · 10-17-2009, 11:59 AM

Hey,

Just catching up with this thread now. I saw the IBC Video over at FX Guide and was blown away by the nVidia/Adobe demo. EXACTLY what I've been waiting for.

Is there any news as to when this technology will find its way onto my PPro editing system?!? Is it in the CS4.2 release which is due out within the next few weeks????? It would make sense if it were... the CS4.2 release looks like it's timed to coincide with the release of Windows 7... and Win 7 includes Direct X 11... which includes the general-purpose-GPU API called DirectCompute:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectCompute

Charles Angus · 10-17-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke Stewart

I wish I could get excited about this, but compared to AE and Photoshop, Premiere is a turd. Its clunky, slow and buggy, and the new media encoder they force you to use with CS4 sucks. Not to rain on anyone's parade though- if you like using Premiere, more power to you. But I think I've had enough.

I haven't used Premiere, but if it's interface is worse than AE and Photoshop, I might go blind if I ever do.

Adobe does a lot of cool things, but their UI design is singularly terrible.

That said, I might have to switch to Adobe if this is as cool as it sounds... The aggravation and lost time caused by the lousy UI would probably be made up for by everything being realtime...

Maz Mawlawi · 10-18-2009, 08:57 AM

That's funny because I think FCP and Premiere have extremely similar interfaces...I find it extremely easy to switch between the two because they are indeed so similar....

I also find premiere way more responsive and has better performance than FCP and unlike FCP, premiere is able to work with files natively whether it's r3d, P2 mxf etc.... There is never any of that "re-wrapping to quicktime" required. I have switch to CS4 from FCP because it felt much more robust and has much more to offer in my humble opinion.....and as much as I hate to admit it, CS4 on a PC runs even better and faster...
While media encoder was buggy at first, it has gotten much better with the new updates and actually works pretty good now....At least Adobe is updating adding features to their software on a regular basis...unlike Apple who seems to have forgotten its FCP users and takes forever to give us updates...

Kujtim Ereqi · 10-18-2009, 11:42 AM

I also think that Premiere and FCP have very similar interfaces. I took me several days to learn FCP, after being an Adobe Certified Expert in Premiere, and the interface was never a problem. But something went wrong between me and FCP. Simply, I didn't like it, and eventually, we broke up. Part of that is that I generally don't like Mac (Don't get mad at me, I know I'm minority).

I can't say much about Final Cut, but what I know is that Premiere Pro is getting better and better with every release. Don't get me wrong. It still has issues, but After Effects and Photoshop can really compensate for those issues.
Let's just hope that Adobe continues this way, and does not get busy with Flash and internet platforms, like Apple got with I Pods and I Phones.

I just wish if Adobe could release its red plugin a little bit faster. That would be great.

Hans von Sonntag · 10-18-2009, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kujtim Ereqi

Don't get me wrong. It still has issues, but After Effects and Photoshop can really compensate for those issues.

You cannot compensate the lack of TC-reading in soundfiles in PP (no TC sound synching) and the useless EDL it produces if we talk about R3Ds with AE or Photoshop. These "minor" bugs disqualify PP for many applications. Here you can see that the "Pro" in Premiere is still a marketing word.

Otherwise there are many things I like about it.

Hans

Antony M · 10-19-2009, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kujtim Ereqi

Part of that is that I generally don't like Mac (Don't get mad at me, I know I'm minority).

Yes, there are millions of us worldwide in that minority!

Kujtim Ereqi · 10-19-2009, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hans von Sonntag

You cannot compensate the lack of TC-reading in soundfiles in PP (no TC sound synching) and the useless EDL it produces if we talk about R3Ds with AE or Photoshop. Hans

I agree with you. Generally I don't use those features in my workflow, but I know that many professionals do.
On the other hand, I know that After Effects is not the perfect solution for every thing. Color Correction for instance: After Effects can help us achieve very good results, but I really would appreciate an Adobe dedicated "pro" solution. After Effects can do it, but it's not that easy. A dedicated CC program, and the addition of the features you mentioned above, would make Adobe and Premiere a game changer..

Hayhurst · 10-19-2009, 11:33 AM

All,

What Obin has been showing as a technology demo is the blazing fast, 64 bit native Mercury playback engine.

It's in our labs now ..... and it's destination is Premiere Pro in "the future" .... can't say when that is, but as teh FXGuide video and Obin's IBC demos show --- we've at least got a version bolted into Premiere Pro and it's a very happy experience. The GPU acceleration in the lab is nVidia CUDA, so ATI GPUs don't show benefits, and won't when we first bring it to market --- nVidia has been awesome to work with on this, kudos to them.

Because it's a new playback engine it works on every format we feed it (the decoding / import is a different part of Premiere Pro ..... so by time it hits the playback engine everything looks the same ... pixels of data).

The bottleneck will move to disk / to decode ...... as Obin notes, on a solid workstation that makes things like RED super-happy .... same thing for P2 .... we've put 7 layers of 720p with lots and lots of effects on the timeline on a Z800 and it's renderless, realtime goodness.

Every laptop we've seen ends up limited by the laptop memory bandwidth .... so we're focusing our work on workstations ...... think FX4800, FX5800, Quadro CX and similar Fermi cards (nVidia just previewed their next gen, codenamed Fermi --- trust me, you'll want one ;-). We'll also support GTX 285 and similar Fermi cards --- they end up limited to 3 or 4 accelerated layers --- more than that and you need a Quadro.

It's an engine for editing --- After Effects has a different engine with different goals ..... so Mercury is just about Premier Pro futures at this point.

Fun, Fun stuff. Wish I could say more .... like product timing but for now .... it's a fabulous glimpse of the future.

Folk like Mark Pedersen and Obin have access to our super-secret experiments ---- and we know that our RED friends often make for great beta testers --- you do cool, challenging work that makes us raise our game. If you want to join the fray shoot me an e-mail ... simon here at Adobe and we can work on seeing whether being part of our pre-release and helping us to make Premiere Pro the perfect tool for your workflows.

Simon

Hans von Sonntag · 10-19-2009, 12:19 PM

Simon,

great to have you here! And before you are off to the next construction site: please implement an EDL "engine" that does abbreviate REEL A001_C001 to A001C001 and not to A001_C00 as it does now, entirely screwing up the meaning of an EDL. And of course, as mentioned above, implementing the ability to read TC in sound files.

Your contestants AVID and FCP can do that for ages.

Thanks in advanced,

Hans

PS: And for my personal delight: I need the Waves VST plugins so badly in a NLE. Premier Pro CAN already display native VST GUIs. The possibility to bypass a dedicated sound tool is a huge advantage making tedious sound reconforming obsolete. Make that working please!

PPS: Love your 32 bit RGB ability, codec support, GUI etc... not to mention the shortcut to AE.

Maz Mawlawi · 10-19-2009, 05:08 PM

Great to see you on those forums Simon!

We love what adobe has done with the R3d Workflow...that by itself made us switch from FCP to Premiere....now if you could only implement support fo the new color theory available in build 20/21 and support for RED Rocket™ soon then that would be FANTASTIC!

10-17-2009, 11:59 AM	#21
Jack Kelly Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 85	Hey, Just catching up with this thread now. I saw the IBC Video over at FX Guide and was blown away by the nVidia/Adobe demo. EXACTLY what I've been waiting for. Is there any news as to when this technology will find its way onto my PPro editing system?!? Is it in the CS4.2 release which is due out within the next few weeks????? It would make sense if it were... the CS4.2 release looks like it's timed to coincide with the release of Windows 7... and Win 7 includes Direct X 11... which includes the general-purpose-GPU API called DirectCompute: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DirectCompute __________________ Jack Kelly After Carbon

10-19-2009, 11:33 AM	#28
Hayhurst Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 26	The future is smooth as butter, fast as hell All, What Obin has been showing as a technology demo is the blazing fast, 64 bit native Mercury playback engine. It's in our labs now ..... and it's destination is Premiere Pro in "the future" .... can't say when that is, but as teh FXGuide video and Obin's IBC demos show --- we've at least got a version bolted into Premiere Pro and it's a very happy experience. The GPU acceleration in the lab is nVidia CUDA, so ATI GPUs don't show benefits, and won't when we first bring it to market --- nVidia has been awesome to work with on this, kudos to them. Because it's a new playback engine it works on every format we feed it (the decoding / import is a different part of Premiere Pro ..... so by time it hits the playback engine everything looks the same ... pixels of data). The bottleneck will move to disk / to decode ...... as Obin notes, on a solid workstation that makes things like RED super-happy .... same thing for P2 .... we've put 7 layers of 720p with lots and lots of effects on the timeline on a Z800 and it's renderless, realtime goodness. Every laptop we've seen ends up limited by the laptop memory bandwidth .... so we're focusing our work on workstations ...... think FX4800, FX5800, Quadro CX and similar Fermi cards (nVidia just previewed their next gen, codenamed Fermi --- trust me, you'll want one ;-). We'll also support GTX 285 and similar Fermi cards --- they end up limited to 3 or 4 accelerated layers --- more than that and you need a Quadro. It's an engine for editing --- After Effects has a different engine with different goals ..... so Mercury is just about Premier Pro futures at this point. Fun, Fun stuff. Wish I could say more .... like product timing but for now .... it's a fabulous glimpse of the future. Folk like Mark Pedersen and Obin have access to our super-secret experiments ---- and we know that our RED friends often make for great beta testers --- you do cool, challenging work that makes us raise our game. If you want to join the fray shoot me an e-mail ... simon here at Adobe and we can work on seeing whether being part of our pre-release and helping us to make Premiere Pro the perfect tool for your workflows. Simon __________________ Simon Hayhurst Adobe Dynamic Media Team

10-19-2009, 12:19 PM	#29
Hans von Sonntag Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 1,229	Simon, great to have you here! And before you are off to the next construction site: please implement an EDL "engine" that does abbreviate REEL A001_C001 to A001C001 and not to A001_C00 as it does now, entirely screwing up the meaning of an EDL. And of course, as mentioned above, implementing the ability to read TC in sound files. Your contestants AVID and FCP can do that for ages. Thanks in advanced, Hans PS: And for my personal delight: I need the Waves VST plugins so badly in a NLE. Premier Pro CAN already display native VST GUIs. The possibility to bypass a dedicated sound tool is a huge advantage making tedious sound reconforming obsolete. Make that working please! PPS: Love your 32 bit RGB ability, codec support, GUI etc... not to mention the shortcut to AE. __________________ Hans von Sonntag www.hubbertvonsonntag.com

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10-18-2009, 08:57 AM	#23
Maz Mawlawi Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 242	That's funny because I think FCP and Premiere have extremely similar interfaces...I find it extremely easy to switch between the two because they are indeed so similar.... I also find premiere way more responsive and has better performance than FCP and unlike FCP, premiere is able to work with files natively whether it's r3d, P2 mxf etc.... There is never any of that "re-wrapping to quicktime" required. I have switch to CS4 from FCP because it felt much more robust and has much more to offer in my humble opinion.....and as much as I hate to admit it, CS4 on a PC runs even better and faster... While media encoder was buggy at first, it has gotten much better with the new updates and actually works pretty good now....At least Adobe is updating adding features to their software on a regular basis...unlike Apple who seems to have forgotten its FCP users and takes forever to give us updates...

10-18-2009, 11:42 AM	#24
Kujtim Ereqi Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 154	I also think that Premiere and FCP have very similar interfaces. I took me several days to learn FCP, after being an Adobe Certified Expert in Premiere, and the interface was never a problem. But something went wrong between me and FCP. Simply, I didn't like it, and eventually, we broke up. Part of that is that I generally don't like Mac (Don't get mad at me, I know I'm minority). I can't say much about Final Cut, but what I know is that Premiere Pro is getting better and better with every release. Don't get me wrong. It still has issues, but After Effects and Photoshop can really compensate for those issues. Let's just hope that Adobe continues this way, and does not get busy with Flash and internet platforms, like Apple got with I Pods and I Phones. I just wish if Adobe could release its red plugin a little bit faster. That would be great.

10-19-2009, 05:08 PM	#30
Maz Mawlawi Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 242	Great to see you on those forums Simon! We love what adobe has done with the R3d Workflow...that by itself made us switch from FCP to Premiere....now if you could only implement support fo the new color theory available in build 20/21 and support for RED Rocket™ soon then that would be FANTASTIC!