Thread: 4K DI options

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  1. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offhollywood View Post
    Oh yeah ... and stupid committees.

    I am selling "F the DCI" T-shirts at NAB.
    Mark, I really don't understand your problem with the DCI specification or the committee that created it. Do you know any of the people who serve on that committee, and have you talked to them about it? The specification was specifically written to be very open ended regarding evolving color standards and yet still be applicable to current technology. It was also written to institute security procedures that are there not only because of general Internet based consumer piracy, but also to allow the business to continue as a business, by specifying a time frame for exhibitor distribution of the material and also by specifying what screens it can be shown on. All of these things are necessary for the business to continue to make money and protect and expand the theatrical experience for moviegoers. It's not simple because it can't be. It's not intended for consumers, and it's not intended to be a substitute for projecting DVCProHD files from a Mac Mini. It's intended to make the digital cinema system more uniform and reliable by laying down specific requirements for proper exhibition. And if it takes a bit of effort on the part of post production service suppliers to achieve that, I personally have no problem with that. Not everything is intended to be consumer desktop software, you know. Nor should it be. If one wants to take an HDCam tape and stick it in a JH3 connected to a digital cinema projector, nobody is stopping you, provided you can find a theater that will allow you to do that. And if you want to play back files from a computer into the same projector, well, nobody is preventing you from doing that either. But if you want a reliable, repeatable presentation with some standards for color, brightness, sound, and distribution format, that adapts easily to things like subtitled presentations without modification and from the same distribution element, and that will look virtually the same in a theater as in your original DI suite, a DCP is a much better bet. Just don't expect to do that on consumer software.
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  2. #22  
    Senior Member Rudi Herbert's Avatar
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    A lot of this discussion, informative, inspired, indicative of future trends and fun as it is to read, is ultimately academic. Do we REALLY need realtime 4K monitoring, editing, grading and other for exhibition that, for the foreseable future (meaning the next 3-4 years at the very least) will remain 2K 99% of the time? Of course not. Have you ever seen a film projected on a well set, DCI compliant theather on a good 2K projector? It looks fantastic. I certainly don't need anymore than that, much less will the "uneducated" audiences. It is taking tremendous time and effort to move theathers worldwide into a digital projection format, do you think they'll do it any less begrudgingly if instead of the relatively easy and cheap 2K system we tell them to incur 4 times the headache and expense for a 4K projection system? I don't think so.

    I f we can truly work in realtime at 2K, with several layers, transitions, whatnot, then that is indeed the sweet spot. Check things here and there at 4K, but 2K is where the real world work will be done for a while still.
    Rudi Herbert

    www.UnderwaterCinema.com

    A site about the equipment and techniques of the art of underwater cinematography
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  3. #23  
    Quote Originally Posted by mmost View Post
    And if it takes a bit of effort on the part of post production service suppliers to achieve that, I personally have no problem with that.
    Neither do I.

    I'll argue DCI with you over drinks at NAB on me.
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  4. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offhollywood View Post
    Neither do I.

    I'll argue DCI with you over drinks at NAB on me.
    If we're talking politics of DCI - and that would mean the true nature of who really owns distribution, and who is permitted to participate either as a service supplier or a customer as a result of that ownership - then it probably won't be much of an argument, because we'll likely be in total agreement. If, however, we're talking tech, I'll be looking forward to your thoughts on that. Prior to those drinks, though, you might want to read up on the AMPAS IIF proposal, which should be made publicly available soon and incorporates some good ideas for post production standardization (lots of things from ILM's work on OpenEXR, and some interesting ideas about scene referred color, use of ILM's Color Transformation Language, and reference transforms), and DC28, which is the SMPTE committee that is attempting to finalize a standard based largely on the work of DCI, but incorporating other things as well.

    Hope I'm not getting too geeky here...

    If you're planning on being in Vegas over the weekend, or more specifically attending the Digital Cinema Summit, that would be a good time and place to meet..
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  5. #25  
    Quote Originally Posted by Offhollywood View Post
    Hey Hans -

    I am impressed!

    Can you tell me how fast 1080p ProRes with ONE primary grade and TWO secondaries?

    Uncompressed 1080p with ONE primary grade and TWO secondaries?

    Thanks on advance!
    Hi Mark (you made me curious..)

    I got the 5600fx for SpeedGrade which is my favourit CC app. SpeedGrade works like a charm (tons of grading layers RT) with this card but als does Color. 1080p ProResHQ (did not want to turn on my Raid for UC) is RT with 1 Primary, 2 Secondaries (Key) and 1 more Secondary with a mask that was even blurred.

    I did not go any further because of lacking time (the kids) but it seems like that Color benefits very much from this card and the drivers are not bad at all. Highly recommended!

    I have to add that the 5600fx does not have a HDSDI out, for some a dealbreaker for others like me a feature which is no so important (there are work arounds). Anway, the only solution for serious DI work on the MAC.

    Hans

    Edit: Footage played back at 30 fps.
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  6. #26  
    Senior Member David Birdy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Offhollywood View Post
    Exactly. FIRST you want killer RED 4K to current 2K infrastructure.

    But for the record ... personal ego and perception run this industry.

    Oh yeah ... and stupid committees.

    I am selling "F the DCI" T-shirts at NAB.
    Quote of the week!!! O how true it is Mark... I will add the people controlling the money really don't know media work-flows....

    Dave
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  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Hans von Sonntag View Post
    I have to add that the 5600fx does not have a HDSDI out, for some a dealbreaker for others like me a feature which is no so important (there are work arounds). Anway, the only solution for serious DI work on the MAC.
    A small clarification... There is an SDI card for the 5600, but it is only supported on Windows.

    Cheers,

    Lucas
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    ASSIMILATE, Inc.
    LA, CA, USA
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  8. #28  
    Quote Originally Posted by luki View Post
    A small clarification... There is an SDI card for the 5600, but it is only supported on Windows.

    Cheers,

    Lucas
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    You are right, of course. Appel is sleeping again.
    Just to add: The 5600 with SDI option is not cheap... but great to have.

    Hans
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  9. #29  
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    Does anyone know if you can Color in 2k in realtime on any system and then apply that CC to 4k DPX files headed to the lab for output?
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  10. #30  
    Senior Member Sanjin Jukic's Avatar
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    Go back to the main topic 4K realtime colo(u)r grading

    is possible today only with Baselight8,


    Quantel's Pablo

    and maybe Chrome Imaging's

    MATRIX 4K that something about that should be confirmed at NAB 2008.

    All other systems are 2K like Speedgrade, Scratch, Color, etc...

    More about Baselight EIGHT:

    "Baselight EIGHT:
    maximum bandwidth, ultimate efficiency
    Featuring 48TB local storage capacity,
    Baselight EIGHT provides the performance
    and allows you to play and grade multiple
    4K streams in real-time. Doubling the power
    of Baselight FOUR, the Baselight EIGHT enables
    real-time grading of 4K scans or multiple
    real-time 2K streams and is ideal for a high-end
    grading suite for commercials or film grading.
    Baselight EIGHT includes Blackboard."


    Baselight Blackboard Viewer>>

    LINK>>>





    "There is no point in having sharp images when you've fuzzy ideas."
    Jean-Luc Godard.

    Dynamic range is, after all, the measurement between well saturation (photosite blowout) and noise floor.
    Thom Hogan
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