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  1. #201  
    Senior Member Mike 'Fireman' Ross's Avatar
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    Jan 2011
    Wellington New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Kwan Khan View Post
    HUmmm. So I should cancel my MEIZLER MODULE order and wait!!! (Just jokin' fellas)...

    People who complain on price-drop are generally people who have not done their home work right (in a past).

    Here is what I did and why (and I am glade that I did it right)
    I planed for Stage 02 but When JIM announced EPIC-M (out of no where), I was super PISSED OFF (just as much as you people here)
    But right after I knew that Stage 2 isn't right for me. Some how I knew that this is exactly what going to happen to REDone market (MOORE'S LAW)
    I quickly withdrawal and went for Stage 03 and kept my self Busy with my RED (and waited for epic).

    Simple Maths;
    $17,500 credit for traded-in RED ONE + $10,500)

    PL MOUNT ($2000)
    SIDE SSD MODULE ($1500)
    5" TOUCH LCD ($1600)
    REMOTE ($550)
    MODULE ADAPTOR ($1250)
    Total of $7,415

    $28,000 - ($17,500+ $7,415)
    Once My EPIC arrived it coast me $20,585 (8 month ago).

    I Kept all my REDone Accessorie. I knew My REDone will come back to me. Now I order me a REDone-MX with smile on my face + wait for dragon
    Heh heh heh.

    We did almost exactly the same maths.

    Only thing I *hadn't* planned for was picking up another R1 body quite so soon or quite so cheaply!

    'No greater love hath a man than he lay down his life for his brother.
    Not for millions, not for glory, not for fame.
    For one person, in the dark, where no one will ever know or see.'

    RED SCARLET-X #513, 'Hekla'
    RED EPIC DRAGON #2229, 'Katla'
    RED ONE MX #10066, 'Askja'

  2. #202  
    REDuser Sponsor Gunleik Groven's Avatar
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    Dec 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    First example is a film camera in the era of switching to digital.
    And the price is used on Ebay. Not on Arri's web.

    Second example is one of pionerring 35mm digital cinema cameras, made in a transfer phase, with inadequate resolution to replace film.
    And the price is used on Ebay. Not on Sony's web.

    I can


    And a third Canon example is a consumer camera and the comparison is ridiculous.
    Sony quietly ditched the rest of teir F35's at a very resonable price, just 2 months after their last selling attempt on the beast. Which was just before announcing the F65...
    Life is good. So is RED...

  3. #203  
    Senior Member
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    Jul 2009
    New York
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
    The point being made here is that extreme price depreciation has been the norm in technology intensive products for decades now. The most obvious being computer equipement. Well what did Jim & Co. call the Red One? A super computer w/ a lens attached. What did Jim say was digital's ace in the hole vs film? Moore's law.

    NLE, VXF and coloring apps have all plummeted in price. Avids use to cost $100K+. Final Touch was $20K until it got included in FCP for free. Resolve was even much more expensive and it's free too, or close to it.

    The same has happened to camera prices, as countelss examples have illustrated.

    So this shouldn't come as a surprise. It's just that when it happens to you it hurts a whole heck of a lot more than when it happens to "some schmoe stupid enough" to invest over half a million dollars on Media Composer, Avid DS, Resolve and a Sony F35 only to see it lose 90% of its value.
    You are absolutely correct about extreme price depreciation being the norm in tech these days.

    The others who complain about an extreme and unnecessary (in their view) price cut by a manufacturer on a product that is fairly new to the market, are also absolutely correct.

    RED is absolutely correct in doing what they did given their strategic goals and corporate mission.

    Those customers taking to the forum to complain about it are exercising the freedom internet tools offer and are absolutely correct in doing so.

    Those who are reacting to them and ridiculing them and making vague comparisons without understanding all the various dynamics that went into this, are IMHO, wrong.

    Any questions?

    And all of this is, er, MY opinion. Just as useful or useless as any of yours. ;)

  4. #204  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Stamford CT
    you guys are missing out on the best part of this, we can all now say that "a Red One isn't much more then the Plastic Cam!" Oh how fun it it to mock the Plastic Cam, relax and rejoice lol! One of the most talented kids in my old school just ordered a BT Red One, I am happy for him and the others! Spread the love, then steal their gigs with our Dragons next year... ps i'm kind of intoxicated, please don't fight I am just trying to spread some humor on what has as of lately been a quite depressing forum to follow with all this toxic negativity in the air from certain people...

  5. #205  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    salaam alaikum Dashiell.

  6. #206  
    Senior Member Paul Ellington's Avatar
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    Aug 2011
    New York City
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunleik Groven View Post
    Sony quietly ditched the rest of teir F35's at a very resonable price, just 2 months after their last selling attempt on the beast. Which was just before announcing the F65...
    I'm 100% with Gunleik, I bought my gear for artistic reasons, I shoot something every day. I have multiple cameras because, well, I would love to shoot 3D AND WILL BE BUGGIN, have been buggin' OFFHOLLYWOODNY for a tech on the setup. It's about art for me, not resale. Maybe some folks should be ticket scalpers instead.

    - E

    Paul Ellington
    director/dp & writer


  7. #207  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    New Orleans
    A product should cost parts + labor + a % of R&D + a reasonable profit margin.

    In the beginning, Red was building these things by hand and that equation added up to $34,500.

    Now that they've got a manufacturing system in place and computer components have gotten cheaper that equation now adds up to $19,000.

    Anyone who's ever bought a computer or a television knows that's the reality of electronics. It should have been the reality of digital cameras as well, but lack of competition has allowed Sony et al to inflate the hell out of digital camera prices.

    So instead of being mad that Red did the right thing here, be mad at the others who never have.

  8. #208  
    REDuser Sponsor Gunleik Groven's Avatar
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    Dec 2006
    Anyone miss their SR decks?
    Life is good. So is RED...

  9. #209  
    Senior Member Peter Moretti's Avatar
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    Apr 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Hingsberg View Post
    F3 price really stayed the same, only change was including the SLOG RGB 444 upgrade option FREE (which early adopters paid $3800 for).

    And I hope you're not implying the F3 is near being discontinued, for broadcast work at least the F3 has a decent road ahead.

    I had thought that I'd seen new F3's body only selling for as little as $8K to $10K, but maybe I was mistaken. I actually mentioned discontination b/c of cameras like the HVX to see how their prices dropped before being discontinued. I think the F3 is an awesome camera. If Sony had put a better codec in it and placed the viewfinder in a usable position, it would have been even more a beast.

  10. #210  
    Quote Originally Posted by Gunleik Groven View Post
    Sony quietly ditched the rest of teir F35's at a very resonable price, just 2 months after their last selling attempt on the beast.
    For the reasons summarized and quoted.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gunleik Groven View Post
    Which was just before announcing the F65...
    Bingo. :)

    And F65 is a significant, required, planned and expected leap ahead.
    And technically capable of replacing film.

    Btw...a few words appeared in my quote which I didn't write.
    Mobile device ?

    Analog > Camera feel optimization
    Digital > Camera performance optimization


    "Como delfines en el fondo del oceano
    volamos por el universo incentivados por la esperanza"

    "L'esperanza", Sven Väth
    "It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards"
    Jung/ Carol

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