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  1. #191  
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    Sell it all. What the hell, so we only make ten million. Gordon Gekko




    FinestQuotes: http://www.finestquotes.com/movie_qu...#ixzz2BOUOR4TZ

    and shame on you then, for not selling it at peak value.
     

  2. #192  
    Senior Member Peter Moretti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrvoje Simic View Post
    First example is a film camera in the era of switching to digital.
    And the price is used on Ebay. Not on Arri's web.

    Second example is a digital cinema camera with inadequate resolution to replace film.
    And the price is used on Ebay. Not on Sony's web.

    ...

    And a third Canon example is a consumer camera and the comparison is ridiculous.
    First, a lot of great looking films were made on the F35/Genesis, so let's not belittle the capabilities of this camera too much. And I'm sure that if you think a new one should still sell for $200K, Sony would be willing to put one togther for you ;).

    Second, why don't you take the time to research the price of other cameras from when they were released to where they are now or close to when they were discontinued? I suggest starting with Sony's F3.
    1110001100010102
     

  3. #193  
    Senior Member Stephen Matthews's Avatar
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    I don't buy/rent a camera for it's perceived value and status, I buy/rent it for it's real world capabilities. And anyone who thinks it's any less of a camera after the price drop needs some schooling, in fact with every update they get better and better.

    Sorry to say it, but like the condo industry in my city, seems like the rental industry blew up way to big in anticipation of a market that shifted and now many people are in a very difficult situation. I feel for them but you can't over saturate a market and if you are in one you need to figure out how to stand out or innovate and adapt into something new.

    Now I'm not saying this is directed at any of you or even true it's just an observation I made last year when I looked into getting a loan and starting a rental company, after some research I found it did not seem like a very good idea, considering the amount of start ups and huge rental houses I would have to compete with.
    Stephen Matthews

    https://www.instagram.com/madleymedia/

    "I do not want my success in life to rely on the suffering of others"
    -V.T.S.
     

  4. #194  
    Senior Member Elsie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrae Palmer View Post
    I'm a greedy capitalist too. :-)

    Just sold one of the EPICs... will list the other one for sale this week too. I'll be down to a cheap RED One.... that I couldn't lose anymore value in. I'll take my money and put it into some good lenses and lighting. That seems to be where the demand is.
    Yikes! Andre. Before you go heavy into lighting remember that Dragon has xx amount of stops of DR. Maybe just FF lenses?
    One camera is a shoot...but four (or more'-) Hydrogens is a prohhhh-duction... Elsie the Wraith
     

  5. #195  
    Senior Member Peter Moretti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrae Palmer View Post
    I'm a greedy capitalist too. :-)

    Just sold one of the EPICs... will list the other one for sale this week too. I'll be down to a cheap RED One.... that I couldn't lose anymore value in. I'll take my money and put it into some good lenses and lighting. That seems to be where the demand is.
    Andrae,

    Keep the other Epic. What are you going to do when Dragon comes out and you can't upgrade for $6K?
    1110001100010102
     

  6. #196  
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    FWIW Andrae is really a great guy I was getting ready to purchase a RED and he had me over his studio going one on one with the epic helping me understand some of the things you cant learn on the forums etc. he has monthly meet ups going over lighting the cameras, doing tests etc. its a shame he's letting go of his epics as I was hoping to rent stuff from him, but hey I guess I'll just be hitting him up for lights and lenses at some point!
     

  7. #197  
    Senior Member Kwan Khan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike 'Fireman' Ross View Post
    I wouldn't single out RED here; you are a FOOL to count on the resale value of ANY piece of cutting-edge digital electronics, and this is not news, it's been the case for *years*.
    HUmmm. So I should cancel my MEIZLER MODULE order and wait!!! (Just jokin' fellas)...

    People who complain on price-drop are generally people who have not done their home work right (in a past).

    Here is what I did and why (and I am glade that I did it right)
    I planed for Stage 02 but When JIM announced EPIC-M (out of no where), I was super PISSED OFF (just as much as you people here)
    But right after I knew that Stage 2 isn't right for me. Some how I knew that this is exactly what going to happen to REDone market (MOORE'S LAW)
    I quickly withdrawal and went for Stage 03 and kept my self Busy with my RED (and waited for epic).


    Simple Maths;
    $17,500 credit for traded-in RED ONE + $10,500)

    PL MOUNT ($2000)
    SIDE SSD MODULE ($1500)
    5" TOUCH LCD ($1600)
    REMOTE ($550)
    MODULE ADAPTOR ($1250)
    PRO BATTERY MODULE ($1950)
    2x REDVOLTS & DSMC TRAVEL CHARGER ($515)
    Total of $7,415

    $28,000 - ($17,500+ $7,415)
    Once My EPIC arrived it coast me $20,585 (8 month ago).

    I Kept all my REDone Accessorie. I knew My REDone will come back to me. Now I order me a REDone-MX with smile on my face + wait for dragon
    No, I do not RENT MY GEARS... - NYC (Times Square)

    EPIC-D with 9" touch, 4 RAVENs, RPP, Sigma 18-35 PL, Motion Mount, VF/RED-rock wireless FF, Pana 17", JVC 20", Seadicam with SEGWAY, Letus 4-Axis with L'Aigle Exoskeleton.

    Trash-Can 12-core Max'd-out) +MBP (Retina), RED Rocket (Sonnet), RAID system (Promise Pegasus II), Adobe Production (CC), FCS2, Resolve 12 with MC Color, 50" 4K Panel
     

  8. #198  
    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
    First, a lot of great looking films were made on the F35/Genesis, so let's not belittle the capabilities of this camera too much. And I'm sure that if you think a new one should still sell for $200K, Sony would be willing to put one togther for you ;).

    Second, why don't you take the time to research the price of other cameras from when they were released to where they are now or close to when they were discontinued? I suggest starting with Sony's F3.
    Thank you for the suggesions, but that is not necessary.

    With respect, your rethoric suggests you are missing the point.
    Which includes brand perception, market segments, customer reliance and rapid devaluation of own products out of the blue, not replaced by new breakthrough technology.
    http://i68.tinypic.com/drcb4y.jpg


    Analog > Camera feel optimization http://omeneo.com
    Digital > Camera performance optimization http://omeneo.com/primers

    imdb


    "Como delfines en el fondo del oceano
    volamos por el universo incentivados por la esperanza"

    "L'esperanza", Sven Väth
    "It's a poor sort of memory that only works backwards"
    Jung/ Carol
     

  9. #199  
    Senior Member Dennis Hingsberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
    First, a lot of great looking films were made on the F35/Genesis, so let's not belittle the capabilities of this camera too much. And I'm sure that if you think a new one should still sell for $200K, Sony would be willing to put one togther for you ;).

    Second, why don't you take the time to research the price of other cameras from when they were released to where they are now or close to when they were discontinued? I suggest starting with Sony's F3.
    F3 price really stayed the same, only change was including the SLOG RGB 444 upgrade option FREE (which early adopters paid $3800 for).

    And I hope you're not implying the F3 is near being discontinued, for broadcast work at least the F3 has a decent road ahead.
     

  10. #200  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrae Palmer View Post
    I would be too embarrassed to post it on here. A problem that I have besides very low rates is also not an understanding of what color grading workflow is. I had a lady that wanted me to color grade her HVX200 project and she hadn't finished editing it yet. The footage was so terrible shot and source files so disorganized... that I gladly turned it down. On many jobs I spent way too much time educating rather than color grading. I started to have free workshops because of this issue. Turnouts are low... the biggest rental company down here started low pay workshops... they are quitting those workshops also. Everyone is now a DP, director, etc... but the market is filled with garbage and an extreme lack of knowledge. On one shoot I tried to show a client that was operating the RED how to safely eject a magazine... he said no... you do it. He didn't even want to learn how to do that. On a shoot four weeks ago... a client came with his own RED One M... all four brick batteries were all discharged... so we had to start charging the batteries off the generator. It's a wild west out there. On the same shoot... they took four hours to put the matte box and follow focus on the camera... due to renting the gear and not building the camera prior to the shoot. I even had one shoot that I had to babysit the directors 12 month old son while 1st ACing. I could go on and on... like the shoot where a director wanted to screen capture the footage playing back off of a laptop... because the editor couldn't figure out how to export the footage from REDcine (I was on the phone for one hour trying to walk him through the process). The directors computer was his wife's... it was a six year old PC and he only had a guest account on it... it was a PC that wasn't even capable of loading REDCine. I travelled all the way to Miami to find that out.

    Prepare for the tsunami of crap.. heading your way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrae Palmer View Post
    Even when I offer to do free 3D video projects... no one can afford it (renting the beamsplitter rig). I often offer to do free 2D indie projects... some projects we start and then after one day of shooting the project collapses. Once again completely for free. It's tough out there.

    A good example is... I volunteered to do a free project... they started a fire in my studio.... heavy smoke was everywhere. The next day, I asked for them to replace the fire extinguisher... they asked me how much of it they used. lol... no kidding.
    Andrae, those stories are just too fucking funny! I can't believe that shit actually happened to you. What was the approximate age of those numbskulls? Were they college kids shooting their film thesis?
     

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