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  1. #181  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Moretti View Post
    A new Canon HV-40 cost $1,000 three years ago. Today it sells new for $600. Look at how the new prices on have dropped the Sony F3, Canon's XH's... I could go on and on, but it's not going to make you feel any better.
    I don't have any opinion on this whole price subject apart that it's a big mess between prices and capabilities between the 3 models now. It's just that we should compare what is comparable.
     

  2. #182  
    Senior Member Elsie N's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergio arguello View Post
    The prices have no bearing!!! Here, let me spoon feed this ...if I buy a Rolex that has a value of 25,000 from a friend yet it's real
    Worth is a 100,000 it value isn't what I paid its what the market will bare. That said, it goes on the books with that value
    As it gets insured at that value. now all the stage 234 nonsense is irrelevant as that was RED saying thank you to us for
    Believing when others didn't and enduring a beta growth process and upgrade paths were to cease after that until epic and
    Nature met in Japan hence the last path was to be dragon. So there's a lot that isn't being put into the equation.
    I think you are comparing something (Rolex) that has no value other than inflating egos. Probably much better watches out there at keeping time. But a camera like Epic will make great pictures no matter what its price. YOU can cause your camera to lose value by lowering your prices for rental. If enough people who rent out their cameras hold the line saying this camera is better at what it does than its competition, the price for rentals will maintain. Price is a mercurial thing. The camera is a constant.
    One camera is a shoot...but four (or more'-) Hydrogens is a prohhhh-duction... Elsie the Wraith
     

  3. #183  
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    People here are talking across each other, comparing apples to oranges. Yeah, both can be eaten, but that doesn't make them the same thing. One group laughs and ridicules the other, and the other tries to justify why they feel the way they feel.

    Sigh.

    This thread will never end. Its like two parallel rails that'll never meet. Time to move on, people. Nothing more to see here.
     

  4. #184  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergio arguello View Post
    The prices have no bearing!!! Here, let me spoon feed this ...if I buy a Rolex that has a value of 25,000 from a friend yet it's real
    Worth is a 100,000 it value isn't what I paid its what the market will bare. That said, it goes on the books with that value
    As it gets insured at that value. now all the stage 234 nonsense is irrelevant as that was RED saying thank you to us for
    Believing when others didn't and enduring a beta growth process and upgrade paths were to cease after that until epic and
    Nature met in Japan hence the last path was to be dragon. So there's a lot that isn't being put into the equation.
    So what you are saying is what, that it doesn't matter that your Epic has appreciated two thousand dollars last year and you are just pissed that is isn't still worth almost 2x what you paid? Is that what you mean? I don't get it.
     

  5. #185  
    Senior Member Mike 'Fireman' Ross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold F. View Post
    Resale Value. Resale value. Resale value. That is the subject here.

    The argument jumps from one point to another, from apples to oranges, which is why it continues. By reading over these posts there is one fact everyone agrees with: it's unwise to count on resale value from a RED camera. It can drop 50% literally overnight.

    Discussions of other cameras, shooting skills, upgrades, sensors, new technologies are all irrelevant because they're particular to each individual - we will argue about them here forever. What's not particular nor subjective, and everyone here, including (or perhaps especially) the moderators including RED employees, is that a RED camera will lose resale value. Fast.

    Again, if you wish to buy a RED camera you should not count on resale value and I'm probably the 100th person to say it. When you've taken that point, you can then apply the other associated issues (other cameras, upgrades, sensors, client base, etc.) and move forward on your own.

    Maybe a 40% drop in resale value overnight doesn't bother you. Maybe it does. The point is that it's unarguably there and you do with it what you will.

    I wouldn't single out RED here; you are a FOOL to count on the resale value of ANY piece of cutting-edge digital electronics, and this is not news, it's been the case for *years*.

    RED are just bringing a little more honesty and transparency to the process than we're used to from the likes of Sony, who will keep the price artificially high - then obsolete their camera overnight with a new model. Ask anyone who bought an F35 what its resale value is, or how people with an F65 feel now the F55 is hitting the market...

    People here are pissed with RED for slashing prices, rather than being angry with Sony and Arri and asking why they haven't been in the habit of slashing theirs? WTF? Come on!

    If MB slash their prices by 50% tomorrow I won't be worrying about the resale value of my old car, I'll be round the dealership ordering that CL-Class before they change their minds!

    Mike
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  6. #186  
    Senior Member sergio arguello's Avatar
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    Even at the risk of swimming in the deftness of that last response...yes I do enjoy when my investment accrue value ...I guess your just more bohemian than I am and a true Artíst. I don't like losing money EVER!M!
    sergio Arguello:
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  7. #187  
    Senior Member Peter Moretti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nikhil Kamkolkar View Post
    People here are talking across each other, comparing apples to oranges. Yeah, both can be eaten, but that doesn't make them the same thing. One group laughs and ridicules the other, and the other tries to justify why they feel the way they feel.

    Sigh.

    This thread will never end. Its like two parallel rails that'll never meet. Time to move on, people. Nothing more to see here.
    The point being made here is that extreme price depreciation has been the norm in technology intensive products for decades now. The most obvious being computer equipement. Well what did Jim & Co. call the Red One? A super computer w/ a lens attached. What did Jim say was digital's ace in the hole vs film? Moore's law.

    NLE, VXF and coloring apps have all plummeted in price. Avids use to cost $100K+. Final Touch was $20K until it got included in FCP for free. Resolve was even much more expensive and it's free too, or close to it.

    The same has happened to camera prices, as countelss examples have illustrated.

    So this shouldn't come as a surprise. It's just that when it happens to you it hurts a whole heck of a lot more than when it happens to "some schmoe stupid enough" to invest over half a million dollars on Media Composer, Avid DS, Resolve and a Sony F35 only to see it lose 90% of its value.
    1110001100010102
     

  8. #188  
    Quote Originally Posted by Pawel Achtel View Post
    Arri 535 five years ago $500k, now $13k on eBay
    Sony F35 five years ago $$220k, now for sale for $8k

    You see, it is not brand specific. RED retained its value reasonably well compared to some other examples.
    First example is a film camera in the era of switching to digital.
    And the price is used on Ebay. Not on Arri's web.

    Second example is one of pionerring 35mm digital cinema cameras, made in a transfer phase, with inadequate resolution to replace film.
    And the price is used on Ebay. Not on Sony's web.

    ...

    And a third Canon example is a consumer camera and the comparison is ridiculous.
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  9. #189  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergio arguello View Post
    Even at the risk of swimming in the deftness of that last response...yes I do enjoy when my investment accrue value ...I guess your just more bohemian than I am and a true Artíst. I don't like losing money EVER!M!
    No no, I don't claim any more artistry than the next guy, but if you sold your camera today you would make money. Until you sell your camera you have neither made or lost anything. (Unless you leveraged your assets with a loan or something, then you might be screwed.) I hope you made a video, film or something though. :-)
     

  10. #190  
    Senior Member Andrae Palmer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergio arguello View Post
    Even at the risk of swimming in the deftness of that last response...yes I do enjoy when my investment accrue value ...I guess your just more bohemian than I am and a true Artíst. I don't like losing money EVER!M!
    I'm a greedy capitalist too. :-)

    Just sold one of the EPICs... will list the other one for sale this week too. I'll be down to a cheap RED One.... that I couldn't lose anymore value in. I'll take my money and put it into some good lenses and lighting. That seems to be where the demand is.
    Andrae Palmer
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