Scarlet undercut by an Epic EPIC Lowballer

[Justin Chin]

I wouldn't always assume that a crew that undercuts your rate is crap. I've had plenty of projects I was in serious contention for go to qualified DP's who undercut my modest owner operator rate.

[Terry VerHaar]

Like it or not, it's called capitalism. If the low rate is unsustainable, the "perpetrator" will go out of business. Until then, you have to cope with it. Then, of course, the next "low-baller" comes along... (sigh) It's a crowded market with a lot of unsophisticated buyers. Who said this was going to be easy? And price fixing isn't exactly the answer.

[Brad Webb]

Getting beat on price is the way things go. I'm just a little surprised I got undercut by an Epic.

[Mike P.]

I mean, if I were renting gear I'd go with the lowest price I could find knowing that if shit hit the fan I could tell the camera owner-operator/"cinematographer" to take a break, and then use his gear as I see fit. Honestly, shooting RED isn't rocket science; with decent lenses it's almost difficult to make it look bad. So I'm not sure how getting a cheap rental can make the production suffer all that much.

Who knows, it could have been a friend of someone involved in the production who was matching/beating the next best rate solely to help out his buddy...

[Doug Beatty]

If it were a friend of the production, why was the line producer shopping for quotes?

An Epic package with a DIT and an operator for less than $600 a day is madness. They are basically either saying that their time is worthless or their gear is free. Either way, that's not a good thing. Well, unless you are a producer- then it's the best thing.

[Terry VerHaar]

I have no desire to defend, or defile, any particular pricing approach, but the "madness" argument or "their undervaluing their time/equipment" arguments are made constantly (and fruitlessly) and have no bearing on market economics. What people might be saying is that their time and equipment are worth something when they are working and nothing when they are not. Everyone makes decsions like thsi, in context, every day. Just like someone living in a small apartment in Bakersfield has different economic needs than someone supporting a family in a 4 bedroom house in LA, everyone comes at it from a different perspective and circumstance. Sad, perhaps, but it's the way it works. :-(

I think, in the end, it's all about strong relationships, trust, and providing a valuable service.

[Yousuf Abbasi]

Why do people on this forum get so riled up when someone else rents out THEIR gear for cheap? It's a free market, they can do whatever they want. I understand you invested a lot of money and had hopes for substantial rental income - but no one guaranteed that to you. So why get upset at the other guy who rents his stuff out for cheaper?

And why is it always justified that "cheaper" is a worse job? I understand that makes you feel better, but there is a possibility his service could be better than yours too, at a cheaper price.

That's like saying since RED costs 10 times cheaper than ARRI ALEXA, it must be 10 times as crappy. Is that true? Clearly not.

This is the law of the markets, business practices evolve and prices are unpredictable. Like Terry said, WELCOME TO CAPITALISM.

[Stephen Williams]

Why do people on this forum get so riled up when someone else rents out THEIR gear for cheap? It's a free market, they can do whatever they want. I understand you invested a lot of money and had hopes for substantial rental income - but no one guaranteed that to you. So why get upset at the other guy who rents his stuff out for cheaper?

And why is it always justified that "cheaper" is a worse job? I understand that makes you feel better, but there is a possibility his service could be better than yours too, at a cheaper price.

That's like saying since RED costs 10 times cheaper than ARRI ALEXA, it must be 10 times as crappy. Is that true? Clearly not.

This is the law of the markets, business practices evolve and prices are unpredictable. Like Terry said, WELCOME TO CAPITALISM.

I have even worked for free & provided an Epic + Lenses, it's a personal choice.

My normal rate is without any equipment, kit is always a seperate negociation.

[Rob Ruffo]

Maybe just a slow week for them and they would rather be working? So this community only supports EPIC owners who charge a certain daily rate?

No community supports gross undercuters and bottom feeders who destroy the market. Free work should be for real charities, and real friends. Capitalism works best with rules and some guidelines. History and a quick glance at the world proves me right.

[Yousuf Abbasi]

No community supports gross undercuters and bottom feeders who destroy the market. Free work should be for real charities, and real friends. Capitalism works best with rules and some guidelines. History and a quick glance at the world proves me right.

"Capitalism works best with rules and some guidelines. "

HAHA. That sounds like something a socialist would say about capitalism.

And no, free work can be for whatever purpose the person or entity desires. Be it, build clientele, get experience, or just try to dissolve competitors (like you). The market is not always going to be your friend.