3D Underwater: Gates - 3ality Kelp Forest Filming

[Chris Burket]

Great stills Johnny! Looks like you guys had a blast, sorry I missed out this time.

[Johnny Friday]

Chris: We missed you! You are invaluable to setting up and putting this rig in the water. By the way, we finally understand very well the "virtual infinity" setting AND how to set it up topside and underwater. GREAT tool underwater if for any reason rig becomes mis-aligned in the vertical.
Thanks Chris.....

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Johnny,

You can get very small parallax with large IA if there background is close or if there is no background at all (blue water).

Pawel, first you should really refrain from pimping your product/ideas on someone else thread. Just saying....not good form.

Also......with all due respect I cannot agree with your statement.

I am a working stereographer.... Not someone who has "played" with 3D and shot a few projects. I have continuously worked on 3D productions almost non-stop for the last 5 years, Worked on $1mil to $40mil 3D features, land, sea and air. In fact I am currently in Brasil shoot a 3D feature right now as I type this.

IA DOES limit closeset distance!!! ....you are completely ignoring "volume"

If I'm shooting an actor against a green screen and the filmplane is 5' away from our actor and greenscreen is behind him.....I'm not going to use a 65mm IA much less anything larger than that!!! This is irregardless of what I would comp into the greenscreen.

If you think that all that matters is parallax.....you are seriously misinformed. One of the most important things stereographers control besides parallax is volume.

Especially when it comes scripted dramatic material.....besides controlling and adjusting parallax values from cut to cut we are attempting to maintain a continuity of volume throughout the story. Increasing both volume in crucial moments and dialing it back at times.

This is precisely why you NEED a beamsplitter becuase you can control this in any situation.


Futhremore.....the sea enviroment is NOT a greenscreen....your have many floating particles and possible objects that because of large amount of possible background disparity over time really start to "bother" a 3D viewer.

With all due respect to Bob and other amazing cinematographers who have shot content on the Solido system and other many IMAX projects shot with side by side cameras (mantello brothers IMAX projects shot with f950, James cameron included).........no honest experienced stereo viewer can say that the 3D produced by those systems was always "good 3D". At one point or another there was a serious stereo issue at any given point. Hubble 3D is a perfect example....some amazing shots...then every once in awhile you want to rip your glasses off or at least close your eye for a few moments.

a side by side system has many advantages indeed. At the same time it really can limit your pallet 3D wise.

Which is why besides few IMAX features....NO feature length 3D movie has EVER been shot entirely with a side by side system.

As a stereographer and rig tech I hate dealing with the complexities of a BS....but I just don't see any other solution at the moment.

I saw your deepx system in person at cinegear. I was impressed. I think it's a great tool to have in my movie making arsenal.....but I wouldn't for a second kid myself about the limitations of a large fixed IA.

A "wet" mirror/lens beamsplitter as you preposed is a intresting idea....I worry about particles and mirror coating dealing with saltwater....reflections....many things....but I am all about new ideas and innovations....

I'd love to see you give it a try and see the results.....just start a new post about it....I'd love to follow your progress.



I wish I was in LA to help you guys out.....looks like your were in great hands with Chris Burkett he has been there with ET rigs since the beginning!! So you guys are lucky to have his help!......aligning 3D rigs is just practice after while you can do it very fast.....with good tracked lens pair you bearly need to fuss with it much.....

Congrats on getting the Gates in the water and making images....it's an incredible system and I can't wait to shoot with it myself.

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Weren't all 3D films that Bob Cranston and Howard Hall ever made shot with parallel side-by-side rigs?

Again....this is such flawed logic......this is like saying....weren't thousands/millions of people killed by black powder muskets? I don't know about you but I just because they did you wouldn't see me going to Afghanistan with a single shot musket rifle...hehehe.....I'll take a full auto modern assault rifle.

The musket can kill a person just like a assualt rifle....yes....but there is no denying what tool I'd take into battle.....

I like you Pawel and I think you have a great product. Safely say the best side by side underwater 3D camera system in the world. But it is what it is. Trying to convince seasoned professionals like me and many around the world that it can overcome the restrictions of its inherent design is futile.

I can tell you that my first choice would be a Gates Deep atom first, because it gives me the most flexibility.......then depending on the script I might give you a call and use your system for any shot where the situation/script calls for it....that said, it would required a massive budget to have both...

[Ross Isaacs]

I was actually amazed at how sharp the edges of the images from Deep Atom are from the material I just shot during our Coral Sea shoot.

[Pawel Achtel]

Hey, Pedro.

My reply was not intended to suggest our housings. It was general and related directly to what Johnny wrote.

You are absolutely right about the "volume". I call it "roundness" and, I think we mean the same thing.

I agree with you somewhat in that, I think a side-by-side system is complementary to a beam splitter (again in general, not just our systems). Both have different advanatges and drawbacks. I don't see one a replacement for the other.

Ross, I love that "reflection" in the front port :)

[Johnny Friday]

Pedro,
you were one of few people we talked about availability. NEXT time....you'll want to definitely learn this rig....you should have it down in a day or two easily with all your stereo skills....took Bob and i an eternity to finally figure out the housing controls for the controllers and virtual zero.....but that's divers....they require a few extra steps....and time.

[Pedro Guimaraes]

Thanks for the consideration !

I'm sure we'll work together sooner or later....

funny enough....just today I shot side by side then in the afternoon shot on the beamsplitter....simply using the right setup for the right situation....

filming in RIO has been amazing...Bobby Settlemire is working as my 1stAC/RIg tech (im DP/stereographer) ......we brought our dive gear and plan on diving on our days off....there is some world class dive sites 2 hours from RIO....maybe someday we will come back with some underwater 3D!

[Johnny Friday]

Pedro: For sure! i'm sure we'll work together not too long. Bob and i have some bids out there and expect to be doing some u/w work soon.
LOVE Brasil.....have fun!

[Pawel Achtel]

...getting back to the subject, if i may...

...Which is why besides few IMAX features....NO feature length 3D movie has EVER been shot entirely with a side by side system...

Pedro, this is poor argument because no less than ALL underwater 3D IMAX films except for one were shot with side-by-side systems. Interestingly, the one shot with a beam splitter (The Last Reef 3D) had by far the worst 3D I have ever seen.

I agree that ideally you would use both types of rigs (beam splitter and side-by-side) if your subject matter varied in size and distance. However, I would not underestimate the image quality factors (distortions, astigmatism, CA, sharpness, etc..) that greatly attribute to "good 3D" by assisting the brain in fusing two images together. Good 3D is not just IA distance - there are many other important factors.

I would also disagree that using both systems would be beneficial to all films. If you are making a film about whales: a side-by-side rig is the only rig you need. If you are making a film about invertebrates, you probably only need a beam splitter rig for the entire show.