Sony F65 hands on review

[Steve Freebairn]

It's also interesting that when you look at the Sony sensor it IS a Bayer pattern too - it's just turned through 45 degrees. And its not just Bayer pattern sensor that need OLPF's - you either apply a low pass filter or suffer from aliasing artifacts - you can't avoid the laws of optics & physics.

I think this is something that a lot of people don't remember. I pointed this out on one shoot by making the joke that it was very high tech, and the only way to get similar results with other cameras was by shooting at a canted angle :)

[Martin Chab]

Stuart:
Yes, of course the F65 sensor is bayer too and actually the low pass is stronger that i would like to see in that camera.
About the fact that the pixels are no co-sited you have a point.
What it bugs me is why every manufacturer makes so much effort to "hide" the numbers inside "tricky" statements instead of create confidence opening their specifications.
Is the same as when i hear most of the politicians, i wonder...why in the hell they don't say the whole story? Don't they realize that we would trust them much more and because of that we would follow them?
It is like the industry is afraid on showing their so called "flaws". There are no flaws, there are characteristics. I wouldn't use a Mercedes cabriolet to carry bricks and dirt...am i wrong?

[Blair S. Paulsen]

The de-bayering algorithms are the key to the final results. They are designed to accommodate the characteristics of the OLPF, angle of the bayer mask, layout of filters (RGB), etc.

Whatever combination of physical factors exist, the algorithm interprets those values to create the resulting RGB image. It is the characteristics of that derived image that matter.

It can be interesting and valuable to know the physics of the process when pushing the electro-optical system. That said, if the derived image can resolve "x" lines on a zone plate then they are in fact resolved, however you got there.

Cheers - #19

Note: If you doubt the power of algorithms in creating images let me cite an example. NASA sent up a space telescope that had a serious focus problem (mirror surface flaw IIRC) and came back with literally millions of soft focus images. By characterizing the error they were able to create an algorithm that actually yielded more resolution that they could have achieved had the original image been in sharp focus. Impossible you say, au contraire, because they were able to reference just how much out of focus an item should be vs how it was represented they could create a more gradual and therefore more granular interpretation. God I love math ;-)

[Mark Toia]

The only reason f65 is cheap now is because red epic is cheap. Did not know that they are only 65k now... Last time I was offered one from my Sony dealer was 105k. Well its good to see finally they are trying to be competitive.
The f23 & f35 were over 200k each both gathered dust about 12 month after release. I have Freinds with rental companies with these two bodies sitting on shelves never been looked at in years. Nobody remembers being ripped off by Sony for all those years and never re-cooped there investment.
I do think however the Sony f65 is a great camera. Wonderful pictures from it. But does not tick enough boxes for me. Not even close.

[M Most]

Stuart: .
What it bugs me is why every manufacturer makes so much effort to "hide" the numbers inside "tricky" statements instead of create confidence opening their specifications.
Is the same as when i hear most of the politicians, i wonder...why in the hell they don't say the whole story? Don't they realize that we would trust them much more and because of that we would follow them?

If all companies told the "truth" about these things, it would very likely become quickly apparent that most products are far more similar than different. The differences would be obvious primarily to those who are very technically adept and inclined to pay attention to such things. For the largest part of the potential audience, though, there would be little differentiation. Marketing is all about targeting potential buyers as a group and finding ways of creating a message they want to hear and will respond to. Advertising is spreading that message in a way they can't ignore. Exaggerated marketing numbers, numbers that are essentially meaningless, and claims of superiority in specific areas are examples of potential diffentiators that marketing can grab on to.

In the society we live in, when this is done by companies it's called salesmanship. When it's done by politicians, in almost all cases it's simply lying. So there is a difference.....

[Mark Toia]

Remember how VHS won over Betamax.. The lessor quality of the two won the race.

Anyways..... Life goes on. All cameras a great. I love them all.

[M Most]

my Sony dealer was 105k. Well its good to see finally they are trying to be competitive.
The f23 & f35 were over 200k each both gathered dust about 12 month after release. I have Freinds with rental companies with these two bodies sitting on shelves never been looked at in years. Nobody remembers being ripped off by Sony for all those years and never re-cooped there investment.
.

The cost of anything at any point in time is based on supply, demand, and competitive pressures, which would include the existence of similar product or the lack of it. At the time of the F35 introduction, the landscape was very, different than it is in 2012. The fact that they had a shorter shelf life than either products than came before or than their buyers might have wanted does not suddenly turn the original price into some sort of "rip off" as you want to characterize it. The F35 w a design that was expensive to manufacture and expensive to support. That was not by design, it was because of both the industry and technical circumstances that existed at the time. I would counter that the Red One is very likely to have a much shorter shelf life than its original purchasers might have wanted as well, as evidenced by how many of them have now gone to Epic and Scarlet and how many of them are essentially being given away to production. That's simply what happens with almost any tech these days, the shelf life is shorter because technical advancement is faster. In time some might come to see the Red One as a "rip off" in the same way you're characterizing the F35. The only difference might be the dollar figure involved. A "rip off" means something that isn't worth what it's being sold for at the its being sold. It has nothing to do with whether you as an individual can afford it. I don't know your financial situation, but I would say that most people here - including me - can't afford a Gulfstream G4 jet. That doesn't make it a rip off for those who can.

[M Most]

Remember how VHS won over Betamax.. The lessor quality of the two won the race.

.

Yup, good example. Long running time, cheaper cassette - those were the messages the buying public wanted to hear.

Marketing and advertising at its best. Or worst, depending on your point of view.

[shashbugu]

by your very definition the F23 and F35 are ripoffs. Not worth the price...

[Nick Eason]

Note: If you doubt the power of algorithms in creating images let me cite an example. NASA sent up a space telescope that had a serious focus problem (mirror surface flaw IIRC) and came back with literally millions of soft focus images. By characterizing the error they were able to create an algorithm that actually yielded more resolution that they could have achieved had the original image been in sharp focus. Impossible you say, au contraire, because they were able to reference just how much out of focus an item should be vs how it was represented they could create a more gradual and therefore more granular interpretation. God I love math ;-)

I hope you're not referring to the Hubble Space Telescope. Because if you are, no software image processing was involved in the fix for the mirrors incorrect figure. The solution was an entirely new corrective optical assembly which, on a subsequent service mission, they sacrificed another instrument to install.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubble_...#Flawed_mirror