Audio sync slip on firmware 3.2.16

[Christopher Mills]

While I bet these errors would increase the time it takes to do ADR, it should still be an option.. you would pay talent, and a sound recordist..and of course post costs..
Also, even a little $150 backup recorder and a snap slate would help in the future.. (I use something much more elaborate... a TC equipped mostly cart based recorder from Zaxcom)
PM me.. I live in Atlanta, and can help you figure this out.. if you want to re-record.... I cant solve the initial file problem.

[Peter Stelzhammer]

I think nobody would or could complain if stuff like that happens on a beta firmware -> there's a disclaimer for not using it on commercial production so nobody should complain when actually using it for such... The problem I see here; 3.2.16 is a _release_ version - and even if it's only "scratch/reference" audio it's a feature that should work with a release version... Ok, the fact that there's still no audio playback enabled renders this a bit useless but nonetheless - especially for sync-tracks or for small run & gun setups even scratch audio is very welcome. And since I don't see the Pro I/O available at a wider basis (right now - should change pretty soon though) there's not really an alternative way other then going with external recorders... No problem here - especially bigger productions should hire a sound guy... But if you're running a "one-man-job" the handling of an additional recorder (even small ones like Tascam/Zoom) can be a hassle... If you really take care of the audio part a "one-man-job" is only an option if there is enough setup time.

For me personally; this is the first release firmware I'm not jumping on immediately since quite some time - until now the release versions tended to be very very solid and trustworthy, since the last beta and the EPIC split/white screen issue I'm a bit concerned... I'm sure there's a lot of work going on behind the scenes right now but I'd rather like to have an official statement on the "release" status of 3.2.16 -> if there are still known problems why not state so or pull the release status back to beta? Until now release meant "for commercial production" -> I'm not sure about that anymore...

Again; no offense here -> I really like the pictures I get out of our EPIC and I can work around most of the issues but I also think problems like this should be stated so they get fixed... Audio is listed in the official Tech Specs -> without any notes about firmware (and playback btw)... For me it's not about fact that there can be problems for some people - it's the fact that I have to dig for it in the forum without any official statement or change on the release status. It's the information that is missed - not the fact that there are bugs (about every modern digital camera has it's own issues).

[Mark Pugh]

Never in my memory- I've been here since the beginning - have I seen a Release build posted with such problems, and remain there for downloading.
The level of testing required now to be confident in a new build is getting silly.
Because of this build, it's clear that in testing, a user now needs to get audio onto the camera, go through a transcode process, and check sync, before using this and any future builds, beta or release.

JIM,
THIS IS A MAJOR DETERIORATION IN PEOPLE'S ABILITY TO TRUST THE CAMERA, AND THE SYSTEM, TODAY AND INTO THE FUTURE
PLEASE KICK SOME ASS, AND GET THIS RELEASE BUILD TAKEN OFF THE DOWNLOADS PAGE!!!!!
THEN PLEASE KICK SOME MORE ASS.

The audio problems have been known for weeks. Please take the build down. People are being screwed.


Yes, people should record audio to an external recorder to avoid the chance of this kind of issue.
But there's no excuse for this Release Build still being available for download.

[Nick Grow]

If you are experiencing an issue, we take it very seriously. If you haven't done so already, I recommend contacting RED SUPPORT directly 24/7/365 by sending us a tech support ticket and log file here http://www.red.com/contact_us.

NICK

[Scott Brown]

Audio has never been a real strong point with Epic or in my opinion with RED as a company. Fantastic pictures yes, the kudos of being picked by famous DP's yes, audio NO.

Audio technology is very mature and really should be bomb proof with ALL cameras now. I just don't buy into the myth that pro audio should always be recorded separately. We have shot network TV docs for ten years on Sony cameras and have never recorded sep sound!

RED will start to lose credibility if they don't start to pay more attention to the audio in future releases.

Just shot with a Canon C300 last week and it was SO much easier to work with than our Epic and the footage was really nice...oh and the audio was perfect and we didn't even require a mixer.

Best wishes

Scott

[Jeremy Torrie]

I had problems with the audio inputs on this build last week not handling a wireless feed via A-Box plugged into the mic inputs on the Epic-X.

The levels came in far too hot and any 'normal speaking voice' was distorting no matter how much I adjusted the levels. Fresh batteries on both the transmitter & receiver units, and when listening to the feed from the receiver everything was crystal clear, as it should be.

This was a last minute shoot with a major Hollywood actor who wanted to shoot a trailer for a drama pilot...incidentally he told me someone in LA advised him Epic could not record audio, to which I said that was silly. I've done it dozens of times in this same setup, but not on this build...I checked the input before we went on the shoot and quiet audio level worked so I thought we were safe...when we got to set and the normal dialogue started we had problems...we will have to ADR the whole thing. I even tried the limiter to see if that would help but it did nothing.

[Christopher Mills]

[QUOTE=Scott Brown;1032588]Audio has never been a real strong point with Epic or in my opinion with RED as a company. Fantastic pictures yes, the kudos of being picked by famous DP's yes, audio NO.

Audio technology is very mature and really should be bomb proof with ALL cameras now. I just don't buy into the myth that pro audio should always be recorded separately. We have shot network TV docs for ten years on Sony cameras and have never recorded sep sound!

That's not foolproof either.. though I did it for many years as well.
Lately, I find that it is a much better practice, and a financial profit center to insist on the camera being audio backup, and a separate recording being done on a standalone recorder.

Also, why are people accepting one man band bookings on anything with a pro camera? You are cheapening your results, and making yourself work harder.
I mean, I can understand shooting an establishing shot or 2 by yourself, but better results come from having support in light, sound, and data management.. not to say of freeing you to manage client relations.

Millions of man years of film, tv, and video produciton in the professional arena might not be wrong....

[Wil Wong]

I have to agree that sound should be pristine (and should be an placed on the highest priority). It's not about having 1 versus 2 people to run video & sound. It is about technology. The cheapest camcorder records great sound.

I understand having a sound person is very important but in the old film world, that was a necessity. If we had to look at our past to match our future, we wouldn't be using DSLR size cameras...because "Real film cameras" were big.

As far as sending a ticket to RED, this is a software or hardware issue that seems widespread (on 1 or 2 but more like all). 1/8 inch mini-plugs are horrible compared to XLR connectors. I like the module with XLR but I don't need the rest of the connectors nor do I want the physical bulk of the box...well thats another topic.

Anyhow, back to the 1/8 inch mini-plugs and sound; it all simply should work in this age and time regardless if there is a sound guy or not. It's like buying a book but the pages are stuck together and you've got to pry them to unstick. This day and age, that type of book shouldn't exist and would rarely be acknowledge as cutting edge.

On the other side, I'm sure Red is working hard at it . Red knows it's what people want. Red knows what their competitors have (technology, money and marketing aside). We've seen what happened to RIM if they fall behind.

[Michael Totten]

I experienced this recently... when we went back to the R3D files it was determined the the transcode was done on a version of RCX that was about 9 months old! Long and short of it was the transcode wasn't done properly, but the audio was fine on the R3D's. User Error

It's best to record audio to a separate recorder AND the camera... that and use a smart slate w/ timecode on every shot. This workflow will prevent disasters like this from happening - no matter what camera you're using.

[Eric Haase]

If there are audio inputs on the camera, the camera should record audio without a problem. That's what is expected of a professional piece of equipment. RED should take note- these are the reasons the cameras have the reputation as being unreliable.