What does dragon sensor mean for Scarlet?

[Brent G Miller Jr]

We've been eyeing the Scarlet for quite some time, even checked it out at NAB, so we're close to pulling the trigger on 2 of them; the only thing delaying me is the lack of 4k @ 60fps (or even 3k @ 60). Has RED revealed what the effects will be for the dragon sensor upgrade to Scarlet? I see that Epic's frame rates are given a huge boost but not sure if that will be the case on Scarlet as well...

(I'm not even going to consider using 2k @ 60 because it looks terrible.)

[Maik Müller Menendez]

Absolutly no details are known yet about the Dragon-upgrade for Scarlet.

[Trevor Meeks]

Just buy a scarlet now. You'll be well taken care of once dragon comes along.

[Shervin Mandgaryan]

(I'm not even going to consider using 2k @ 60 because it looks terrible.)

Get some sharp glass or use S16 lenses.

[Bob Gundu]

I believe the Scarlet upgrade to dragon will be less than $10k.

[Carey Lee Coffey]

2K at 60 fps should definitely not look terrible. I shoot 120 at 2k on the Red One all the time and it looks amazing. Have you tested it yourself? How do you know it's terrible?

[Shane Kelly]

I think 2k looks terrible. I won't use it. The dragon update ( if we really knew what it was) seems to only make sense for the epic. If you want high framerates, just buy an epic.

[Joel Mielle]

The Scarlet Dragon update will be too overpriced for my liking. If it was $2K then maybe I would consider it, but otherwise I'd rather invest in glass and rent the gear I need. I'm not sure how everyone else feels.

[Alexander Thomson]

TL;DR: The Dragon upgrade for Scarlet will cost more than the EPIC upgrade, will provide less power/framerates/rez compared to a Dragon equipped EPIC, yet at the end of the day, RED will always be there to accommodate you, by offering a discount on the new Dragon Scarlet, or by offering a reasonable upgrade path.



*To answer the OP's question, no one but Jim and Jarred know what a Dragon Scarlet will be capable of, but from what it looks like, it will be capable of 60fps 4K, but with a total investment close to $23K after upgrade. ($12K Scarlet Body, $11K upgrade price to get Dragon)

For that price, you could get an EPIC now, enjoy the high framerates, and then pay the cheaper $6,000 price quoted for an EPIC Dragon upgrade. You'll even get the upgrade quicker, since EPIC upgrades will be completed before they start working on Dragon Scarlets.




The Dragon upgrade, if they choose to offer it to Scarlet owners, will very likely bring some sort of 5K 24fps recording, but for more than the $6,000 price quoted for Epic owners. I'm guessing somewhere around $9K or $11K and that'll turn the Scarlet into an entirely new machine.

Keep in mind that the Scarlet has "about 25% the processing power of EPIC" according to RDC, and has a price to match. EPIC has extra horsepower that hasn't been taken advantage of, whereas the Scarlet was engineered from the start to be a TV/Indie/B Cam machine, utilizing all of the onboard processing power to churn out 4K 24fps. That's why features like 5K 24fps and/or the REDuser suggested "400 FPS burst mode" are harder to implement on Scarlet, simply because the power does not exist. It's like trying to get a Macbook Air to transcode R3Ds at the speed a Mac Pro or Z820 w/Rocket would—it's not technologically possible.

The REDCODE isn't the limitation, to my understanding, it's the power (ASICs) it takes to convert a RAW Bayer pattern image into REDCODE RAW, record that to SSD, provide a debayered monitoring path via HDSDI, as well as draw up the GUI on the EVF/LCD etc, etc. The EPIC has the power, Scarlet does not. That's why there's a $15K price premium on the EPIC. You're paying for framerates and power. This in turn makes the Dragon easier to install, because you don't have to upgrade as many components to get a usuable Dragon EPIC. Dragon just utilizes more of the onboard power.

The Scarlet when it was released before the Jan 1st price increase ($9,750) was substantially underpriced, IMHO. It worked, because it garnered a lot of press and generated a lot of new customers, but for that box in particular, it may not make sense to gut the whole thing and but Dragon capable ASICs in it.

Either way, RED will accommodate MX Scarlet owners, either by making the price of the Dragon Scarlet more than the cost to upgrade an MX Scarlet, or, by providing a discount to current Scarlet owners to buy a new Dragon Scarlet, or by some other means. It's in RED's DNA to keep the customer up-to-date. (or, at least have the option to. There are still quite a few Red One M's out there. )

[Shane Kelly]

Nice summary, Alexander.