People Renting Their Epic For Pocket Change

[Daniel Soderberg]

It really bums me out when I hear that a fellow Epic owner in my area is renting out both their Epic and Scarlet full packages plus two camera operators for a full day for just $500... It really sucks...

Like most people, I've invested a lot of money in my equipment, and if I have to make my rate lower than $500 for a similar package to compete, it will take years to make my money back...

Anyone else see the same thing happen in their city?

[Gunleik Groven]

This issue has at least three different angles...

1. Rentals as a business is quite similar all over the world. A basic day is calculated from 1,5 to 3,5% of the base investment (WorstCase "basic" stage 2 X package = 285$/day) And THEN one gets rebates for more than X days, often a week = 3 days.
Many of the lower renters have very basic kits.

2. Many with very basic kits and no extra bodies/warranties or solutions of any kind, try to rent their equipment at "large rentalhouse rates", which iss easily stupid for everyone. The serious houses give so much higher level of reliability and security for the productions that what one buy is a totally different product AND the cameras are often kitted out to cost 3-4 times a basic X package. Thus an "Epic" from a rental house can easilly be 1000$ a day from the same calculus (1,5%) that gave the 285$/day rental.
Problem by saying that "but the image is the same, so I'll take 1k$ too" is that the customers get a bad impression of the camera. The kitted up rentalhouse cameras are geared for "any" occatio. The basic X kit isn't.

3. If you are small/independant... Make sure people hire YOU and YOUR competence, not the kit. THAT will make the kit work and can make it worthwhile for them to spend the same amount on small kit + lots of competence. If you are good...

4. It's a hash and capitalistic world out there where supply and demand decides the prices as much as calculus... RED has democratisized film-making. That also means that there are many more cameras out there than what is used on a daily basis... And as an elctronic piece of metal, it has a limited "fresh" value, even whn put on a shelf. Because there comes the next canon/sony/arri/panny/even RED camera, and then noone will care (of course many will just use their cameras, but rentals are partly a fashion business. These days everyone wants anamorphic glass, Last year it was Cookes. In 2008 it was masters. Next year it's the Leicas. Guess what... There aren't many with limited turnover who can stommac that AND not go bancrupt. And if one for some "moral" reason should lose money rather than get whatever one can get, one will quickly go bust.

Smalltime RED kits (not implying tthat THAT is what you hhave, just that that is more of the norm) are basically owner/operator kit and not rental kits. I see people have totally funny expectations for rentals "because the camera has made images like Prometheus".
It's not about that. It's about finding viable businessmodels. And as far as I have been able to see: Rentals is a business of its own with (at times) quite conflicting interests to run a smaltime production company.
Not that the small company cannot rent, but that is a byproduct, and not a major income.

Nothing against keeping the prices good. But it has to be seen in context.
If I was to charge the same as Panavision, I should at least in some ways have an equal or better product.
And as I cannot build and support Primos, that product will have to be me. Not the camera...

That said... two operators and two cameras @ 500/day sounds like they aren't very good...

Just musing here...

[Daniel Soderberg]

Well said Gunleik, I completely agree. And I hope their packages aren't very complete and I hope I have more to offer ;)

[Brad Webb]

I look at it like this. Let the bottom feeders take the low end business. Business that I honestly don't want because I know they won't have insurance and will probably treat the gear like shit.

[Timur Civan]

Check + brad.

Don't sweat it. That guy its working with low rent clients. Good clients want you. Camera is probably not on their minds. They usually let the DP decide what he or she wants to use.

I have yet tocome across a client that had said they will rent the camera from somewhere else because its cheaper.

[Rick Darge]

I agree but it is a free market after all. When I send quotes out for my Epic, I try to get as much as possible. Sometimes producers want it for cheap, and that's when I offer them the Red One MX... It's a different market now than what it was 4 years ago though. Sometimes I catch the big fish, othertimes productions just can't afford Epic but good thing they have me as the DP because if they are friends, and I really connect with the material, I'll give them the bonus of a lifetime. 4 years ago I would never do that but things have changed and so have my priorities. Can't knock someone else for going dirt cheap. Focus on your craft and that's all you can do because after all a camera is just a tool but and eyeball is irreplaceable.

[Curt Pair]

This issue has at least three different angles...

1. Rentals as a business is quite similar all over the world. A basic day is calculated from 1,5 to 3,5% of the base investment (WorstCase "basic" stage 2 X package = 285$/day) And THEN one gets rebates for more than X days, often a week = 3 days.
Many of the lower renters have very basic kits....

My man, you couldn't have said it any better... I do feel his pain... I have to compete, and keep hearing more and more are entering my marketplace... I explain, "one has to be able to operate that camera to get that look... that's what you're paying for!"

Thanks for the well spoken/written words!

[Jon Jones]

You're going to have to put your focus on customer service and support it would be better for your clients if you can keep a good business standard and a family name rather than rock bottom prices. Just wait till all the hype wears off from the red camera and people will come back to the solid companies that have good support and great customer service.

[Jon Jones]

I mean would you rather get your car at A south Broadway dealership called easy credit auto that sells all used cars or would you rather go to the dealership where you know you can get good service.

[Jon Carr]

Any RED rental for 500/day or less for a camera "package" better be a rental from a personal friend. Otherwise, it cheapens not just everyone, but also the camera in general. To me, these bottom feeders who think RED's should rent for if not cheaper then a DSLR are a plague who don't know what type of camera they own, nor truly know the value of the camera, nor invested as much as people with a complete package. All they care about is making a quick buck cause they are renting out something with the RED badging.