5.1 Audio In Premiere Help

[Al Lougher]

Hey all, so I'm still trying to get to grips with PPro CS5.5 after moving from FCP. I'm trying to create a simple 5.1 mix and running into issues. I'm simply creating a new sequence and choosing 5.1 from the Tracks tab and from there I can drag a WAV onto either a stereo or mono track and in the mixer move the puck within the 5.1 area to send the audio to the desired speakers. But when I move the puck into the center channel the audio comes of my left rear speaker! Likewise if I move the puck to the far right middle still comes out of my left rear speaker. I'm going audio HDMI out over a displayport to my amp. Amp is showing 7.1 multi channel in.

Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?

[Danko Dolch]

Hi,

you will find snapping points at the left, right, center, left surround and right surround position in the premiere mixer.

If you dragg the puck into one of these snapping positions you "lock" the mixer to 100% channel assignment.

To set the LFE channel you can set the LFE fader to 100%

Btw. the surround mixing features of Premiere CS6 are much more improved then the ones in CS5.5...

--> In the footage bin you can also directly assign a mono track as a 5.1 channel. Choose right click "Interpred footage" if I remember right...

--> ! WARNING ! Premiere doesn't support 64Bit broadcast wave files so you can't export a feature lenght 5.1 multichannel WAV file if it exceeds 4GB.

Don't try to export Quicktime PCM only because the file will possibly corrupted by random audio peaks.

Send to Adobe Audition doesn't work because you don't get your 5.1 mix but only the soure files in a RAW new project and it takes forever...

I don't know how to export single channels (if I mute all exzept one and export to mono wav I've found a gain offset.

So currently the only way to export other then embedded with video ist to export as AVI audio only - import that into Adobe Audition and than split to mono channels and save to disk. (or as 64Bit WAV Audition can deal with that...)

[Al Lougher]

Thanks for the info, however I'm already doing what you're suggesting, that is moving the puck around to the desired speaker location. The issue I'm having is that when I do move the puck to anything BUT the L/R channel all the audio comes out of the wrong speakers. So for example center comes out of my rear left speaker, puck in the rear right channel comes out of my sub.

Has anyone successfully connected an iMac to external receiver over displayport HDMI and got Premiere to work?

Edit: Just want to point out that the 5.1 channels work perfectly in Adobe Audition CS6 but the problem also persists in Premiere CS6. I must be doing something wrong for Premiere not to work, surely?

[Danko Dolch]

ah - have an idea...

1. Check if you can play a 5.1 audio - import a 5.1 AC3 or 5.1 Quicktime file or something place in in a 5.1 master sequence and check if the channels are played back correctly...

2. If not - got to "Preferences" --> "Audio Output Mapping" and check if the channel mapping for your audio hardware is setup corretly.

--> don't think we have a issue with the 5.1 mixer puck here but with the hardware audio channel mapping and audio preferences in general...

hope this helps...

nw42

[Marc Wielage]

Hey all, so I'm still trying to get to grips with PPro CS5.5 after moving from FCP. I'm trying to create a simple 5.1 mix and running into issues.

My opinion is that Premiere is not adequate as an audio mixing program. To me, it's fine as a simple editor (and fine for picture editing), but you need a purpose-built sound editing/mixing program to do 5.1 effectively. Pro Tools is a far better choice.

The other issue is, just setting up the room and getting the levels right is not simple, cheap, or easy. You can get some basic info on room setup and available methods and software over on the Gearslutz Forum's post section. In particular, check out the pinned tutorials on program levels, room setup, and deliverables.

I would no more try to do a mix in Premiere than I would in Final Cut Pro or Avid, so the same limitations are there.

[Danko Dolch]

Hi Marc,

for sure Pro Tools is a good solution for professional 5.1 mixing - but as ever it depends on your needs...

1. If you are a cutter and work image centric in your NLE and just have to add some finishing to your mix - why not do it in Premiere? You have all the gear like a full featured 5.1 mixer, multitack and realtime effects... (In CS6 Premiere got some nice features from the Audition mixer too...)

2. If you want to create a professional 5.1 audio mix from scratch - switch over to Adobe Audition and send the mastered 5.1 mix back to Premiere. (Thats the way the Adobe CS works - specialized applications for different tasks that are workflow connected via nice things like Adobe Dynamic Link.

3. If you don't want to cut videos but you are a professional audio engineer: Don't buy Adobe CS because you dont have time to create motion graphics with AF, edit stills with PS, create DVD' & Blurays with Encore or cut videos with Premiere...

Then think about a dedicated DAW like a Pro Tools System for your studio to get the best gear for your job ;-)

nw42

[Marc Wielage]

If you are a cutter and work image centric in your NLE and just have to add some finishing to your mix - why not do it in Premiere?

If you need to hammer a nail, why not just use a big wrench? It's large, it fits the hand well, and it'll still pound the nail in. But you know... sometimes an actual hammer is better.

If you want to create a professional 5.1 audio mix from scratch - switch over to Adobe Audition and send the mastered 5.1 mix back to Premiere.

I'm hesitant to use the word "professional" and "Adobe Audition" in the same sentence. I think it's an OK program for certain things, but not ideal for a real mix for a real film, especially one incorporating many tracks, complex changes, and multiple formats. I have used Audition for certain small things, and it's fine. Not suitable for a big project, however.

Note that Pro Tools can be very inexpensive if you shop around. There is a learning curve, as you'd expect with all powerful software. And I wouldn't expect a picture editor to have the skills necessary to cut, edit, and mix audio at a very sophisticated level. For that, I think you need to hire a sound editor, and preferably one in a room that's optimized for correct playback at the right levels, without any distracting noise or acoustic problems in the room. (By the same token, I wouldn't expect the sound editor to have the skills to edit the movie together, either. Nor would I want the DP to build the sets, or the grips to prepare the set meals.)

Addendum: there are a handful of picture and sound editors who switch back and forth and do both jobs at a very high level. Walter Murch is a good example, but even he will use Avid (or FCP), then jump over to Pro Tools for the sound edit and mix -- in a different room.

[Danko Dolch]

Hi Marc,

people work on diffent levels in the real world - not every small documentary will be shot in 5K graded on a Baselight and mixed in 7.1 with Pro Tools... ;-)

You are absolutely right about "big projects" but this is about the RED / Adobe workflow - so it doesn't make sense to reject the Adobe tools from start.
Adobe CS6 is a very powerful toolset and a lot of people do amazing things with it.

If someone feels that he need other tools to get better results there are other workflow threads about Pro Tools & Co.

So let's think about how we can "create a simple 5.1 mix" with Adobe tools. That was the initial question.

;-)

[Marc Wielage]

You are absolutely right about "big projects" but this is about the RED / Adobe workflow - so it doesn't make sense to reject the Adobe tools from start.

I know of movies shot for about $100,000 that had all the dialog, effects, and music completely cut and edited on Pro Tools by one person. Later, the material was brought to a larger mixing stage, and a couple of days were spent tweaking levels and finalizing the tracks to work reasonably well for festivals and other screenings. The cost was minimal, a couple of thousand dollars. And the final mix completely passed QC for delivery to Blu-ray and cable. If you don't know exactly what you're doing, there's a much greater risk that a train wreck will follow. (And more time and money lost in fixing the problems.)

The big flaw trying to mix anything on a system this limited is always going to be the room, followed closely by the monitoring. Tell me what amplifier chain and speakers you're using, what kind of acoustics the room has, the distance between the mixer and the speakers, and how the speaker levels were calibrated. All of these factors will have a drastic effect on how the mix translates to different environments, beyond what software you're using to mix it.

To me, trying to use Audition for something like this is kind of like using iMovie to cut a network TV show together. Technically, you could sorta/kinda do it... but why not use tools optimized for the job at hand?