Preferred format for archive material

[Martin Weiss]

I'm working at the National Library of Norway, where we are about to start scanning all our films in 2k/4k, and we are deciding on which delivery format to use for external clients. (We will of course archive everything in uncompressed full rez DPX glory, but need a lighter format for FTP transfer to external video productions.)

When you receive footage for inclusion in your SD/HD project, (for example archive material in a tv documentary; not intended for cinema exhibition):

1.) Which codec do you prefer: mpeg2, h264, DNxHD, XDCAM or Prores?

2.) At which minimum bit rate?

3.) Most footage is in 16:9. When receiving material in HD, do you prefer it in Standard 1080p (1920x1080) with black borders; or in 1440x1080?

Bonus question: is anyone using MXF files yet?


Thanks for your help!

[Jaakko Rinne]

ProRes 422 1920*1080p would be my preference, with letter/pillarbox for aspects other than 16:9. XDCAM HD422 50Mbps would be my second choice.

EDIT to add: It really depends on the use. After thinking about it some more, I would prefer to have a compressed 422 format for broadcast use and lighter workflows with the option of getting a 444 lossless/uncompressed version at 4K if that's what's needed.

[Mark Toia]

None of those for me.. I mainly archive uncompressed masters, DPX or 16bit tiff or ANIMATION...
All my rushes will be R3D's

I may work in PRO RES every now and then... and store those as is. But only because I have worked in that format perhaps.

4k PRORESS 4444 would satisfy me into the future though, but only for my masters, not my rushes. I'f prefer they stay as is.

[Subhadip Sen]

Hi444PP X264 10-bit Lossless.
Mathematically lossless versus uncompressed 4:4:4 10-bit, ~3:1 compression.

For above 4096x2304 or 16-bit, OpenEXR PIZ compression.

[Kirk.Attard]

Agree with Mark

Prores 444 for me too.

[Martin Weiss]

Thanks for your replies so far, I really appreciate the input.

Just for clarification, the material will of course be stored uncompressed in full res DPX, but we also need to have a more lightweight format on hand for easier delivery. We need to strike a good balance between size, quality, openness and usability.

[Bruce Allen]

I'm surprised at all the votes for ProRes. What real practical benefit does ProRes offer over DNxHD for making HD quickimes? The only thing I see is that it is more proprietary and closed and has gamma issues...

DNxHD works great and as of this year also has a 444 version which is around 350 megabits I think.

But if you are also storing as DPX files, DNxHD175 should be plenty.

Or even a lower compression - you wouldn't believe how many things have gone to air from DNxHD115.

BTW, I know it's not as much of an accepted practice yet, but at some point instead of DPX files, you could use OpenEXR with PIZ or ZIP compression. It is an open standard and pretty great for lossless compression of original scans - similar file sizes as if you zipped each DPX file. You can also do B44a which is very slightly lossless but does even better. But yeah, probably stick with DPX as it's the standard right now?

Hi444PP X264 10-bit Lossless sounds interesting though! It sounds like it may take a while to compress though and not be easily-editable? I'll have to test that one - thanks Subhadip!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Martin Weiss]

Going a bit off topic, but the problem with compressed footage for archival (even if mathematically lossless) is that when a bit gets damaged, you might lose a whole frame or more. Since we are working with a preservation perspective of 1.000 years, uncompressed is the only way forward.

I think the reason for the preferance for Prores is the (still) wide spread use of Final Cut. I'm slightly leaning towards offering both a Prores version for FCP folks, and DNxHD for the Avid users. Premiere users are probably fine with either?

[Matt Gottshalk]

Premiere can use both yes.

I also prefer Avid DNxHD 220 10 bit.

The Avid codec is free and unlike ProRes is completely cross-platform.

[Marc Wielage]

And I'd add DPX to the list. I think that's far and away a better archival format than anything on the list, especially uncompressed.