I Hate Screenwriters

[alexwhitmer]

All feedback is valid around here!

---> just testing if i'm going to get a beating for saying that...

EDIT: Alex just make sure you don't talk about other high speed cameras, digital still cameras, 2.5K cameras and also "sponsored" camera tests and everything should be fine ;)

A thorough lashing at best! And yeah, I've seen a few exchanges here as well. The mods seem pretty quick about stepping in.

Sooo, yeah, I put forth the notion that all feedback was valid ... there was a 'discussion' about how to give and take advice, and who should one listen to when conflicting advice comes along, and both seem logical. Mind you this is about the minutia of screenwriting, and should you say COP #1 and COP #2 or SKINNY COP nad CHUBBY COP, along with other nonsense to argue about?

I said ...

Everybody's advice is valid because everybody has a style and habits that work for them, whether they got it from adherence to a book, film school, or by school of hard knocks, or some combination. And whether they have been produced, sold, or neither or both, their own experience gives them a unique point of view on the craft. How their advice is given or perceived is what makes and breaks industry friendships - and starts a fight or two.

Yawn. Humans. This is why conflict is the backbone of storytelling. We crave it. And by god we'll get our fix even if we have to invent a misunderstanding.


Here is just one of the responses ...

Everyone's advice is valid! Hooray. So why come here? Why not just ask the meth-heads on the exit ramp?To all of you: Beware anyone who talks like this. You wouldn't think like this when learning to play golf or write code for apps or cook or deal with a sick child or fix an engine that won't start. Please don't think like this about writing screenplays. It is a very, very specific craft.

And this jewel after what I said somehow morphed into 'All advice is equal' .... (I never said that!!)

Are you actually still trying to defend your indefensible position that all sources of advice are equal when it comes to writing screenplays? (And don't play word semantics to try to twist something you said into something you didn't say.) Years ago when I was young and dumb, I tried to argue with someone who was trying to give me some good advice. Finally he said something that stuck, and I never forgot that. He said: "You can open your mouth and stay stupid, or you can shut it and learn something."

You might want to take that advice.


Yeah, okay, dude. Thanks for proving my point on inventing misunderstandings.

If it wasn't just so ridiculous, it would be funny. And these are seasoned writers. I gotta say, some forums are just dang hostile. And that's just a small sampling. If nothing else it's good material for slapstick horror. I'll file it under stupid.

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[alexwhitmer]

Writers chose to work alone, all set staff chose to work in groups. For sure different personality types.

That's really so true. I think TV writing requires that folks work in groups. Not 100% sure. I'd rather jump off a bridge.

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[Matthew Scott]

wowsers.....hostile is right!

[alexwhitmer]

Okay, so, this is something we've been dealing with at our studio since the late 90's, and that's the difference between: story, script, and film.

I'm just going to quote the opening line, but comment on the whole.


You are quite right. Concept is what you begin with, not a story. It really only becomes a story when you have structured it as such via a screenplay, with your beginning, middle and end, whether it's linear or not, or even wholly finished.

Per you comments on what happens next - trying to translate that screenplay into a film with all the non-tangible elements such as rhythm and tone to name just two, is something screenwriting dismisses all too easily, and puts little or no value on cadence or in writing to match action to the tempo one wants to convey, or that the original concept had in the purest of form - a love scene as opposed to a car chase wouldn't maintain the same tempo in the witten words. Instead of embracing this, screeenwriters would rather argue over whether COP #1 or SKINNY COP is the preferred method a reader wants to see. Who really gives a crap? It's THIS kind of nonsense that makes it difficult to interpret and match a film to its screenplay, and why so many costly changes need to be made before, during and after. Dang near all of it comes down to lazy writing that created a 'safe' script devoid of charisma. It just pisses me off!

In my someday free ebook book for filmmakers who want to write their own material, or at least know how to read a screenplay and know the difference between a good one, and one that falls short, I have a chapter dedicated to rhythm. To me, the screenplay is not just about story, but about getting a bunch of people out of bed at 4 in the morning to access the script as a document that will get cables connected, lights set up. sound gear unloaded, and then everyone dressed and ready to change written words into moving images. That means the screenplay must convey not just the organic story, but also its movement, its pulse, its static elements, its angst and anticipations. And so much more.

Even if it is clear in your head, you still need your actors and dp and everyone else to see and feel what you see and feel, or as close as possibe without stripping them of valuable input and interpretation. Somewhere there is a great song lyric -'I see everything you hear' - like that. Natalie Merchant, maybe?

I think I'm rambling, but you get the point.

Far too many writers, and filmamkers, think a screenplay is only about a story. Truth is, it's only one small part of it.

Love your post. Really appreciate the POV in it.

[Vance Colvig]

So glad to see you back, Alex. You liven thing up around here. Thanks.

[William Barber]

You don't hate screenwriters, you hate forum keyboard jockeys. I don't think many good writers would spend their time talking about writing instead of writing.

[Elsie N]

Screenwriters are just regular people with closeted dissociative personality disorders. Alex, maybe it was one of their meaner personalities that give trouble on the screenwriter forums.

[alexwhitmer]

You don't hate screenwriters, you hate forum keyboard jockeys. I don't think many good writers would spend their time talking about writing instead of writing.

This particular thread went on for 30-ish pages, and is likely still going. Yeah, I'm even ashamed of myself for chiming in. Could have been writing, or cooking, or walking my dog.

And for the record, I'm of the school that COP #1 is fine for those walk on-walk off peripheral characters. Making up identifiers such as COP WITH A LIMP or BY-THE-BOOK COP for a simple action that plays no other part than background filler is silly, IMHO. Now if this Cop somehow tweaks the story in a small way by distracting a main character, or somehow influenceing static or kinetic elements, and there are a few other cops around, then yes. Maybe. Only if it feels needed to keep periphs sorted out, and it doesn't screw with the cadence. COP #1 and COP #2 has a nice, quick rhythm to it, as opposed to COP WITH A LIMP and BY-THE-BOOK COP. Sounds trivial, but it can matter in a long read, when casting and when moving it from paper to film. If I had to read COP WITH A LIMP and BY-THE-BOOK COP 7 or 8, or more times over, I'd be ready to toss the dang thing.

See, I'm doing it again. Time to walk the dog.

What I have learned from stopping in on writer forums - and they all seem pretty much the same to one extreme or another, less one or two gems - is that many if not most writers (at least those in the forums) have already determined the boundaries of the craft, and will fight to the death to defend them. 30 pages of bickering without a single change of mind is proof in the pudding. And that's just one thread.

Yeah, I'd call it a waste of time that should be spent writing, or at least scratching out notes for a new concept, or reading old material, or reading oscar-winning screenplays. Anything but pissing in the wind.

Okay, dog, let's do this thing.

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[alexwhitmer]

So glad to see you back, Alex. You liven thing up around here. Thanks.

Thanks, Vance.

I managed to shake off the yuk. Most of it, anyways. Still isn't over since the dirt bags refuse to pay, but I'm to the point where it just doesn't matter anymore. The longer I have to deal with them, the shorter my life becomes.

And, I was really missing the writing.

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[alexwhitmer]

Not sure I consider "RedUser" a filmmaker forum, but whatever. What other filmmaker forums have you found? Enquiring minds want to know. :)

Well, one bigins with a D, but seems when I spell it out, the post gets deleted. There is FXhome, and a few others I'll need to find since it's been some years since I participated. Some are camera specific, others related to videography. Some have next to zero activity. Like two weeks between posts. Number viewing? 0. That says enough.

Of all of them, RedUser has, by leaps and bounds, the strongest viewership and partcipation. And the working knowledge to back up what is being discussed, argued, imparted, or questioned. As does the D, but the differnces make both valuable.

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