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  1. #121  
    REDuser Sponsor Gunleik Groven's Avatar
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    Wooot????

    LOL, guys.

    Noone but very few hacve seen the Dragon, and Epic is not a bad cam as it is...
    Life is good. So is RED...


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  2. #122  
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    I hope they blow the competition away, combining the best stuff from different cameras this would be the areas to focus on for me:

    - lower noise levels and better low light sensitivity (in the c300 range)
    - better color reproduction (alexa)
    - higher dynamic range (35mm film range)
     

  3. #123  
    REDuser Sponsor Gunleik Groven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Max M. View Post
    I hope they blow the competition away, combining the best stuff from different cameras this would be the areas to focus on for me:

    - lower noise levels and better low light sensitivity (in the c300 range)
    - better color reproduction (alexa)
    - higher dynamic range (35mm film range)
    Sure...

    To replace 35mmm DR, you need a lot more than any single 35mm stock can handle, as you cannot just swap your 800 for a 50. The other way to get the same flexibility would be a 15 stop chip with built in IRND's to compensate for the different exposure levels.

    So in practical work a chip needs to surpass any given stock to get the same result as multiple stocks.

    As to colors...

    Have you ab'ed much lately?

    Cheers!

    G
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  4. #124  
    Senior Member John Marchant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Soderberg View Post
    I know it's a little outdated, but director Rian Johnson's "Red Facts" outlines the ways Red can improve to create a better image very well: http://www.rcjohnso.com/REDFACTS.html
    "Red samples at 12-bits and sends 12-bit linear files to the recorder [now 16 with Epic]; F23/F35/Genesis sample at 42-bit and send 30-bit logarithmic files to the recorder."
    Calling these cameras 42 bit makes for a very off-kilter comparison. Summing together bits per channel is not equivalent to representing bit depth in the way we'd normally understand it. The Epic has 16 bits per pixel when delivered at native resolution. Downsampled to match HD delivery size using the method above the Epic has over 100 bits of data per pixel. Practically speaking it'll get quantized back to 10 bits anyway.

    Upscale the Sony HD to 5k similarly and you have just about 6 or 7 bits per pixel. Realistically you're not going to have a low bitdepth image though, just one that has less data spread among more pixels.

    As always the proof of the pudding is in the eating.
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  5.   Click here to go to the next RED TEAM post in this thread.
  #125  
    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel Soderberg View Post
    As people have said, I don't know if the Dragon sensor will address more than the only 3 specs they've let us in on... but I agree that instead of focusing on more resolution (moving to 6k), more time should be spent on increasing color depth (more bits per channel), less compression, and less noise.
    I know it's a little outdated, but director Rian Johnson's "Red Facts" outlines the ways Red can improve to create a better image very well: http://www.rcjohnso.com/REDFACTS.html
    "Red samples at 12-bits and sends 12-bit linear files to the recorder [now 16 with Epic]; F23/F35/Genesis sample at 42-bit and send 30-bit logarithmic files to the recorder."
    This being said, Red One and Epic are amazing cameras and I am so thankful for what Red has made affordable for us!
    That article is, of course utter bollocks. It's not just outdated, it's wrong, factually incorrect and written in an absurdly biassed manner ignoring even contemporaneous evidence to the contrary.

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  6. #126  
    Senior Member Patrick Tresch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    That article is, of course utter bollocks. It's not just outdated, it's wrong, factually incorrect and written in an absurdly biassed manner ignoring even contemporaneous evidence to the contrary.

    Graeme
    Best post ever! ;-)

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  7. #127  
    Senior Member Peter Moretti's Avatar
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  8. #128  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gunleik Groven View Post
    Wooot????

    LOL, guys.

    Noone but very few hacve seen the Dragon, and Epic is not a bad cam as it is...
    Epic is a GREAT cam as it is, which is why I don't even Red's mission of finding meaningful ways to make it way better. This thread is only an attempt to help by eliciting feedback.suggestions, and provocative title to get many people to look. (13 pages later - they did...)
     

  9. #129  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Ellington View Post
    Constructive critiques are fine, but when you are always complaining it turns into white noise.
    I almost never complain about Red products and I often defend them. I am not complaining. I am describing my future needs as I estimate them.

    to me noise si "awesome! great!" over and over again. What could anyone learn from that?
     

  10. #130  
    Senior Member Frazier Nivens's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rob Ruffo View Post
    What we really wanted was very good performance at extreme high ISOs. It's not every shoot that needs this, but it does open up possibilities that would have been expensive or impossible to do without it. (I'm NOT advocating doing away with lights, just using lower amp heads in tough locations where power and the ability to disturb local residents are at a premium.)

    We also wanted a bigger field of view. Give us full frame. That's cool, and useful.

    Give us even more precise color fidelity. There is no end to how good color rendition can be. More of that is always better.

    Instead the main touted feature is even higher pixel density, and "6K".

    6K is a problem. Its' not a good thing. 5K already nearly chokes most fo our workstations here, and we never, EVER say "Gee I wish this was higher resolution" Computer tech is advancing slowly these days. It's not just our computers, but the computers of all the people we hand in footage to that would have to be upgraded. My head hurst just thinking about it. If anything we would prefer slightly FEWER pixels per square inch of field of view, not more. Or just keep it the same.

    Most camera makers have understood that the "megapixel race" has become silly. In my personal opinion, at the current 5K, Red should too.

    I think proof is that there is very little excitement over Dragon. Epic solved a real problems ("Gee, I love my Red, but I wish it were lighter and started up faster, and that 3K and 2K slomo is cool, I wish it were more and full-frame)") and got/gets everybody excited. Mx upgrade also solved many very real problems with the old M sensor, as every Red one D.P. had a time when they wished they had more useable high ISOs with nicer-looking and less noise.

    Dragon seems to mainly aim to solve an imaginary problem of lack of resolution that no one is really having, not even if you use an Epic for high-end stills work.

    WIth MX and Epic all in the community were clamoring with excitement and anticipation. Dragon? Let's face it, not really.

    I say this with the best of intentions. It's not too late for Dragon to be "subject to change".

    If you don't like it and think it's not what you need don't buy it. Simple as that...why complain about it....if you want to stay at 4k or 5k, stay there. The beauty of RED..
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