Extensive Leica Suumilux-C test

[KETCH ROSSi]

Sorry guys,

I'm not in to this kind of stuff, and this tests were done privately and they will remain as such, the funds and effort spent was done so to insure us that we did got the best available glass for the project, specifically because there is lots of fashion work involved, and form which we will be pulling FRAME GRABS out of the actual shot on Epic material for print, 6' prints that is, so as you can imagine the quality of the used glass is extremely important for this the tests done.

Not interested on posting pictures of Projectors and other thecnics used to get the precise result we got.

Carlos, I see you are taken defensively my post... DON'T!!

The fact that you had an Oscar winner means very little when technically testing glass, I have tested and advised on glass in Hollywood for some seriously big name Directors which have won so many prices including several Oscars is not even funny, so again, Oscar can mean very little to nothing depending on experience of the Filmmaker on Testing techniques and MTF readings with Projectors specifications and settings.

Then the fact that you just said He won that Oscar on Cookes, that is an immediate give away of his/hers BIAS on the matter in favor of Cooke...

Fact is that Cooke glass is by far the last in the chain PERIOD, your findings are in direct opposition with those of every test done not just by my self but by any one I know.

Either way, what is the most important thing is that you are happy... ;)


BTW: We tested with a 4K system did you?

[Carlo Rho]

I suspect we may be seeing the results of an early set and the internal light traps might improve??

We also suspect it but BandPro answer us that the set was a production one.

[David (dudi) Namir]

May be if he read it all he'll not be so sad... We mesure less resolution than Cooke but is still more than Epic or Scarlet top!
We love those lenses, they're really really Leica, the out of focus is very different from Arri or Cooke.
If you need sharpness and resolution you can always use Master Prime ...and carry them!
We got a complete set of Standard Speed ArriFlex T2.1 from West Germany (so untill '89) and I prefer their look over Ultraprime with Red's cameras. It depends from the job, sometimes you need Sharp&Res and sometimes not.

Backorder is a pain, our reservation is from March '11 for Q2 '12 and untill now not a sign from BandPro.

Carlo
If you need a set let me know as I have my Leica Summilux-C lenses at Movietech London.
You can contact me or Anil Devani there for our set.

David Namir
Israel

[Michael Lindsay]

We also suspect it but BandPro answer us that the set was a production one.

My memory might not serve me well but I seem to rember very similar things happening with S4s and MPs when with the 1st few sets apeared..? Did Zeiss/Arri and Cooke put their hands up and create a marketing disaster or did they just make good and move on? You can't expect complete transparency on everything (I'm always fair with my clients but rarely 100% transparent about all aspects of the process)

I do completely apreciate it is not all about 'sharpness' and I do need to have a hands on test myself... I supose your test just very slightly disapionted me. I really was wanting them to be the perfect all round lens. Everything else about them is perfect for us. A great look in a small, fast, modern lens design with no colour weirdenss (also, and really not to be underestimated, a focus pullers dream... ). I'll perhaps do a simple limited test and report back.

thanks again

Michael

[Carlo Rho]

Sorry guys,

I'm not in to this kind of stuff, and this tests were done privately and they will remain as such, the funds and effort spent was done so to insure us that we did got the best available glass for the project, specifically because there is lots of fashion work involved, and form which we will be pulling FRAME GRABS out of the actual shot on Epic material for print, 6' prints that is, so as you can imagine the quality of the used glass is extremely important for this the tests done.

Fortunately our effort are paid by Cameraman Magazine and so we can publish our work and we're happy to share.

Not interested on posting pictures of Projectors and other thecnics used to get the precise result we got.

There's no picture of projectors. Did you read the article or did you just look to insanely low def pics to judge it?
We shot charts sometimes solid sometimes trasparent in a controlled envoirment and all the pics are frames pulled from a "normal" clip 25p 1/50th. This is just what every DPs has done for the last 100 years before shooting!

Carlos, I see you are taken defensively my post... DON'T!!

Carlo, please, I'm from the world fachion capital, that funny grey city in the north of your country!

The fact that you had an Oscar winner means very little when technically testing glass, I have tested and advised on glass in Hollywood for some seriously big name Directors which have won so many prices including several Oscars is not even funny, so again, Oscar can mean very little to nothing depending on experience of the Filmmaker on Testing techniques and MTF readings with Projectors specifications and settings.

Then the fact that you just said He won that Oscar on Cookes, that is an immediate give away of his/hers BIAS on the matter in favor of Cooke...

This is really funny, do you think I work with Robert Richardson? It was just an example of someone that just shoot a well considered movie (Photography oscar, first time to digital, first time to 3D) with Cooke! Name is linked to IMDB, have a look to his experience! May be he decide to use them instead of Leica or Master Prime for some reason.

Fact is that Cooke glass is by far the last in the chain PERIOD, your findings are in direct opposition with those of every test done not just by my self but by any one I know.

That's a sentence that I don't like, I do not judge optics or other's people work in this way. I do not write period in capitals because I don't think to have the truth on my side. I don't like to rise my voice to have the reason, we prefer to use a chart to try to prove it or to change our mind because the results are unexpected!

Either way, what is the most important thing is that you are happy... ;)

Always happy and having fun! Looking forward to chat about this with you with a bear in Spain, Italy or in IBC! Actually I'll be happy with my kids next hours, it's Saturday!

BTW: We tested with a 4K system did you?

Obviously...

[KETCH ROSSi]

The fact that a magazine paid for your test, actually can tell me even more the test could have been Bias to the magazine's interest, not that I am saying it was, however the best tests are always in my experience been the PRIVATE ones, not PAID ones.

I did read the article, and it is a nice article except the results, which again, are some what extremely hard to believe, especially been so that it is the first time EVER I read such a positive test of COOKe glass, they are by far the softest of them all, and the the main reason why I have never wanted to use them, also to the fact of the Warm fill they provide.

I place PERIOD, when I am very certain of what I'm talking about it, and trust me I am, those that know me well, know also my extensive knowledge on Glass, both Still glass and Cinema glass, which I take very seriously.

My English language in my writing at times might not reflect proper and educated wording of my views and fillings, however my actions sure do.


I Have owned just about every glass ever made, at one time or an other, most recently RED PRO Primes and Master Primes, which I sold, and now have Ultra Primes, while I await delivery of our Leica S.C. Primes.

On EPIC 25K and projected in full 4K both on 4K Display and 4K Projector, I see resolution and details like no other way possible, however I also come form Photography background, and for this I continue to use EPIC as such, and resolution and sharpness becomes even more important for Photography Print work then projection of Motion it self, for this our tests were even more exhausting and we are certain of our results.


I said Carlos, as I have several friends in Mexico, no need to get offended about it, CARLO it is... ;)


I did not intend for this to become argumentative, many tests have been done by fellow REDUSER during this past 6 years, we each give our opinions, and I shared mine, as I sure don't want people only having one opinion of the Leica Glass vs. the Cooke glass, which of course IMO does not reflect the correct result.

However people will ultimately make up their own minds, and hope do their own tests based on the criteria which will proof best for their work in which the chosen lenses will be used.

Always a pleasure to meet fellow REDUSER, so if I see you in IBC I'll say hi.

[Michael Lindsay]

The fact that a magazine paid for your test, actually can tell me even more the test could have been Bias to the magazine's interest, not that I am saying it was, however the best tests are always in my experience been the PRIVATE ones, not PAID ones.

Funny my reaction to this was the opposite... I don't trust anyone (I'd include myself in this) with a horse in the race. The fact that he was being paid to write this added some credibility to his findings (also the fact he seems like a good trustworthy type helped).

http://matthewduclos.wordpress.com/2...leicasummilux/

maybe Matthew could comment? He suggest they had amazing contrast which seems at odds with these results?

regards

Michael

[Carlo Rho]

I do not have to justify my purchase to anyone, the company is mine and I'm really happy with my Leica's reservation and I'm looking forward to receive them and start shooting with that Leica look!
I don't want to explain again our evaluation about the lenses because the article is there, we got some hudreds of downloads in a cople of day. A great result for such a technical article and everyone can evaluate it on his own.
I just want to highlight one simple fact, in the article we never say that Leicas have less resolution on the S4s, we say that at the frequency of 55l/mm in the center of the image Leicas shows a little less sharpness. This is limit is made by the sensor, may be with Dragon (I hope not!) or with some future sensor will be able to see the optical limit.
The resolution analisys ends with this sentence: "We can classify the Leica lenses within the group of soft lenses, with a high degree of power in showing the finest details all over image surface, on both sides and corners."
English is not my mother tongue but I believe we made the point clear.

[Josh Beadle]

I appreciate you posting your results and the other tests you have on your website. It takes a certain amount of bravery to be a "scientist" and put your work out there for professional review - doesn't take very much to be a critic with an internet connection.

While I have you on the phone . . . what's your opinion on using the new Angenieux Optimo 45-120 on Epic? Some of their lenses are "designed for film" others specifically for digital. What's the difference and does it matter?

[Ryan Patrick O'Hara]

Just wanted to say nice write up.

I always have enjoyed all the articles and tests, and they have been amongst the most thorough I've ever seen posted on the internet. Many thanks and good work.