Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: 48fps The Hobbit - First Review

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  1. #71  
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    I couldn't really say if 3D will come to dominate one day. I would wager that if the perseverance exists to get it right... Right as in easily enjoyed by the majority of the audience without any discomfort or even effort, then yes I believe it could, but that was not the point. I wasn't using resolution as a metaphor, but pointing out just one area where people prognosticated about the acceptance of new tech in cinema using words like never only to look foolish when said tech matured.

    As others have said in these Hobbit debates, young people do not share the biases that come with the experiences of older folks. We older folks will one day be gone and many of our biases will go with us. Forever never dies. When you say forever in a definitive way as you did you will most assuredly be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias Ashenheim View Post
    Just to clarify, you think 3D is going to supersede 2D across the board?
    1080p + 4k were measured against/ competing with, the sharpness of time tested and accepted 35mm film... so its not a perfect metaphor.

    and if corrination street becomes the new cinematic standard ill eat my scarlet.
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  2. #72  
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    I agree with your larger point, but I wouldn't say that the "soap opera look" is inherently bad or negative. It is just used as a common point of reference to describe a complex thing; the look of drama as it appears on daytime TV. Whether that is a good or bad thing is left to individual taste and context.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carey Lee Coffey View Post
    Soap operas and the "soap opera look" have been around for a long time, and no filmmaker has ever tried to mimic the look of them. If the "soap opera look" was a going to catch on, it would have happened a long time ago. The fact that the "soap opera look" is a negative description should tell you something right there. It looks bad. It looks fake. it looks "video-ish". The "soap opera look" will never be accepted.
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  3. #73  
    Senior Member Tobias Ashenheim's Avatar
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    yeah forever is a stupid exaggeration..

    I guess for most reasonable people, the jury is out..
    But one thing is for sure, if the lighting, sets, lavish art direction and VFX budget of the Hobbit doesn't sell 48p..

    good luck to the next contestant.
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  4. #74  
    I trust that Peter Jackson is a talented film maker. But I also think King Kong was lousy. Nobody is perfect. Everybody has time/money/talent limitations. I also think we can have a differing of opinions on what we like best.

    The problem I see though is that yes Ketch it can "make you feel like you're really there". But the problem is that the "really there" is a film set not "really there". VFX work is a lot simpler when you are delivering 480p. The added resolution exponentially increases the level of quality you have to achieve. I suspect 48p is doing the same thing. Yes you feel like you're there but the increased framerate is increasing the audiences expectations for set quality, acting and lighting.

    Could 48p be a case of the "Uncanny Valley" but applied to locations and actors? Maybe imperfect acting is being forgiven due to the stuttery framerate. Micro-emotions aren't coming through when they need to be. I have no idea if that's true but it could explain why just smoother video has such a viscerally bad reaction.
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  5. #75  
    Senior Member Tobias Ashenheim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Greenwalt View Post
    it can "make you feel like you're really there". But the problem is that the "really there" is a film set not "really there".
    thats such a perfect way of putting what i see and feel. really good explanation.
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  6. #76  
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    A film in which the speech and sound effects are perfectly synchronized and coincide with their visual image on the screen is absolutely contrary to the aims of cinema. It is a degenerate and misguided attempt to destroy the real use of the film and cannot be accepted as coming within the true boundaries of the cinema.
    Paul Rotha, 1930

    48 fps and higher could be like Smell-O-Vision. Or it could be like colour. We'll have to wait and see.
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  7. #77  
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    Everyone said Showscan looked too real and it went nowhere in 30 years.
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  8. #78  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Z View Post
    Everyone said Showscan looked too real and it went nowhere in 30 years.
    No, the problem there was that it chewed up 10 times the film negative per second as regular 24fps 35mm. It made no sense economically if the negative and processing budget goes from $200,000 to $1,000,000 per feature. (And that was back in 1981.) Not a problem if you have unlimited time and money.

    The Showscan cameras also made a ton of noise, as do the Imax cameras. They don't work well for quiet, intimate interiors. For that reason the recent Dark Knight Returns Imax production used normal 35mm for interior dialog scenes, according to DP Wally Pfister. No way to easily blimp the big Imax cameras (yet).
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  9. #79  
    Senior Member KETCH ROSSi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Greenwalt View Post
    I trust that Peter Jackson is a talented film maker. But I also think King Kong was lousy. Nobody is perfect. Everybody has time/money/talent limitations. I also think we can have a differing of opinions on what we like best.

    The problem I see though is that yes Ketch it can "make you feel like you're really there". But the problem is that the "really there" is a film set not "really there". VFX work is a lot simpler when you are delivering 480p. The added resolution exponentially increases the level of quality you have to achieve. I suspect 48p is doing the same thing. Yes you feel like you're there but the increased framerate is increasing the audiences expectations for set quality, acting and lighting.

    Could 48p be a case of the "Uncanny Valley" but applied to locations and actors? Maybe imperfect acting is being forgiven due to the stuttery framerate. Micro-emotions aren't coming through when they need to be. I have no idea if that's true but it could explain why just smoother video has such a viscerally bad reaction.

    Gavin,

    at the end is all about what you are used to see.

    It tucked myself some getting used to HD, and then 4K was an absolute wanting IT kind of thing, once I got hooked on to higher resolution Motion viewing, same as in Still Photography.


    Same experiences I had when I had restaurants, and people would tell me my Lasagna and Tirami S was not as good as that they were used to eat from other Shitty places, which had no clue on how to make a Lasagna or Tirami S and not because they were not Italian and their Chef was Mexican, but just because they were using none of the proper ingredients, and only after coming to my place for awhile, then and only then they could never see themselves going back to the other place, as of course they had now tasted what REAL Lasagna and Tiurami S should taste like... ;)

    A bit of food analogy here, but that is my point, it will take time as with everything, including the Death of Film no one wanted to admit it was coming, well, it came and gone now.

    But I also agree that not all have the same taste, and some might like it some might not, also for 48fps, there are some things that will show off better then others, I know my film is a perfect candidate for it, The Hobbits.... I need to review further before making final decision, but I do TRUST Peter Jackson... ;)
    KETCH ROSSi F i l m m a k e r
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  10. #80  
    Senior Member Mike Lary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KETCH ROSSi View Post
    including the Death of Film no one wanted to admit it was coming, well, it came and gone now.
    I think you just proved that 3D hasn't eroded your suspension of disbelief. ;)
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