Speedgrade Raw & DPX Workflow CS-6

[Gunleik Groven]

Gunleik - the DPX route is meant as an 'will always work' fallback method. For RED users the EDL route is very straightforward and much more elegant. While SpeedGrade, because of where it comes from, supports basically all of the 'Digital Film' file formats, it does not yet support the vast amount of formats that comes from come from cameras mainly used in the broadcast industry. For those formats, 'Send to SpeedGrade' is the right tool for now.

Lin

Understood and respected, but still...

Many use something like RedGamma (1/2/3 - depending on camera and build) with some added contrast and possibly saturation for their offlines. Baking that into DPX's before a grade, wouldn't make the image very gradeable.... Is there a way to at least batch-set metadata to something like RC3/Redlogfilm/5000/640 ISO before sending to speedgrade? That way the image wouldn't be DOA....

Without such an option, it will "allways work" in a purely "getting it into speedgrade" sense of the meaning, not in an image integrity meaning, and will cause a lot more "why is my images so noisy/have so little DR" etc posts all over the place...

But comming from where you come from, you knew that allready... :)

Sry. Not meaning to be disrespectfull! Still stand by the question...

[Lin]

Gunleik,

For RED users I would always go the EDL route, it's faster, easier and you have full access to the metadata you mention directly in Sg.

I agree that there's room for improvement for Send to SpeedGrade. Our (IRIDAS') technology was acquired after Premiere was already feature complete, so I am glad the Premiere team was able to put in what they did in this cycle.

I basically agree with your quality analysis, but getting optimum picture quality usually means hitting more than one button. Trying to change that, but not in the short time frame we had to transform 'IRIDAS Lumetri Concept' into 'Adobe SpeedGrade CS6'.

With the EDL route you have full access to the RED decoding settings and can override them in SpeedGrade for the entire timeline and/or for individual edits.

Cheers,
Lin

[Gunleik Groven]

Gunleik,

For RED users I would always go the EDL route, it's faster, easier and you have full access to the metadata you mention directly in Sg.

I agree that there's room for improvement for Send to SpeedGrade. Our (IRIDAS') technology was acquired after Premiere was already feature complete, so I am glad the Premiere team was able to put in what they did in this cycle.

I basically agree with your quality analysis, but getting optimum picture quality usually means hitting more than one button. Trying to change that, but not in the short time frame we had to transform 'IRIDAS Lumetri Concept' into 'Adobe SpeedGrade CS6'.

With the EDL route you have full access to the RED decoding settings and can override them in SpeedGrade for the entire timeline and/or for individual edits.

Cheers,
Lin

Agreed on all points.

Here (at the Norw Broadcast Corp) I have set up a default import preset for RED files into Resolve (as that is our tool) to be able to use RED for a wider set of productions than Drama/Promo - the ones that have the resources to do a decent firstlight/prep of the files.

As that is not optimum for all, it covers 85% of the potential for 99% of the shots that we get in on these non-drama/promo productions, and is enabling us to use RED and get a real gain for it on a much wider userbase.

I am doing the same things for photographers.

A "for dummies" approach, can be quite handy, to secure a good image from most well done shots. And at least a lot better than from any other camera we have here.
It doesn't get you 100% out of 100%, but it makes it easy and very useable.

I'd love to see a button like that in the "send to speedgrade" function, as a lot of people don't really grasp the edl/conform thingy, and much less really know how to/really want to prepare their timelines for EDLs in quite a few of the environments I am involved...

Speaking of which... does Speedgrade come with a proper re-timing option?

Cheers, and thanks a lot for your responses.
NOT meaning to be offensive here. Really like speedgrade from the little I have worked with it!

Gunleik

[Subhadip Sen]

Hi Subhadip,

you can control the amount of RAM being used for the cache in the SpeedGrade user settings: Hit 'S' to switch to the settings tab, then click on 'Cache'. The default is 50% of your RAM, which is usually a value you don't have to change unless you are using Premiere/After Effects or another RAM-heavy application in parallel.

Lin

Thanks, I haven't had a chance to go through the options in detail. It is certainly great that SpeedGrade can utilize all computing resources to their potential. In fact, I am thinking of extending the RAM allocation!

Of course, looking forward to tighter integration with the rest of CS Production Premium in coming years. Completely understand that there wasn't time for CS6, and indeed, I wan't expecting much. Send to SpeedGrade is certainly a bonus and very useful for formats like XDCAM-EX or AVCHD.

[Gunleik Groven]

Another speedgrade/RAW question...

For resolve, I prefer setting the metadata in RCX-P. The interface is just much quicker there, than the meta-windows in Resolve, and I have access to curves and other goodies, if I need'em.

How's that for Speedgrade?

[Filippo Guerra]

Any roundtripping with Premiere will currently require you to render the clips from SpeedGrade. For typical R3D workflows this would look like this for example:

Finish rough cut, save as EDL.

Bring into SpeedGrade, connect to R3D media.

Do first light grade.

Render out first light using original filenames and timecode, export EDL from SpeedGrade.

Bring rendered material into Premiere, finalize edit.

Save EDL.

Reconform in Sg re-using original grades and footage/alternatively conform with pre-rendered clips that Pr used.

Finalize grade.

Do final render in Sg.

Lin

I'm trying to get a easy workflow between RedCineX, PPro and Speedgrade. So far, I get my light edit from RedCine, open the files in premiere, do some cuts, export via EDL and conform in Speedgrade.

Now I only miss the part where a come back from Speedgrade to PPro! :)
Is there a way to export EDL from Speedgrade and back to PPro???

[Mike Garrick]

Hi Filippo,

I noticed your other thread. Your problems appears to be treating Speedgrade "SG" like "Color" in FCP7. This is not the case , SG at the moment is a one way process. ie you use it a the very end of the edit pipe, you cannot return to Premier. I see a lot of benefit in SG but it isn't quite there at the moment. Someone please correct me If I am wrong or if there is a work around...I would love to know.

From what Gunleik & other users appear to be endorsing is using the EDL from Premier imported into SP then grade. Do not use the "Send to Speedgrade" button for R3D files projects.

I wish like you, SP was similar to "Color" in workflow but right now this is not the case. There is a lot to like about CS6, I imagine this issue will be resolved at some point in the future with an update.

[Wes Howell]

Is there a way to at least batch-set metadata to something like RC3/Redlogfilm/5000/640 ISO before sending to speedgrade? That way the image wouldn't be DOA....

You can select a range of clips in Premiere and then adjust source settings - which will apply the settings you specify to all the clips you selected before opening the RED source settings - Easy enough.


Also, a couple comments about Send to Speedgrade. We all know it's first implementation is simple, but I find it very useful for some things.

As we all know, writing (or re-writing) to DPX is a very common workflow.
There are times when you may want to "bake" work from your PR timeline into the files before you go to Speedgrade.

I did that this weekend when I was stabilizing some rolling automotive footage that I shot at 48fps. The footage was really challenging color-wise. Some shots were in the shade and also had some bright highlights (sky). I actually ended up blending 2 layers of RED footage inside Premiere. I used track matte and a soft mask and 2 copies of each RED file to selectively expand my dynamic range. I wanted to bake the stabilization in as it takes a lot of processing, and also bake in the color changes, a little bit of selective blurring and a very slight vignette as well.

I lined up all 17 of my clips (3 - 4 layers on Premiere's timeline) and used Send to Speedgrade.

I think the main takeaway here is that having 17 folders full of the DPX sequences was very useful to me for what I was doing.
Not only did it allow me to bake in hours of PR work (and stabilization) it also produced DPX subfolders relative to each clip that are very useful for continued work.

I can do whatever I want with these DPX folders - I can do final grading in SG, I can overwrite the DPX's.... (very common workflow) I can do work in AE, transcode to something like Prores or DNXHD and of course I can always import the DPX's back into PR.

Hope that's useful to some. I love using Speedgrade and find it very rewarding.

Wes Howell
Adobe Systems

[Jeff August]

Hey everyone...I have a few tutorials that may help some of you out.

Check out www.looklabs.net where you will see our new color correction product "Speedlooks" as well a series of tutorials on how to set-up projects, EDL workflows and how to use Speedlooks in Speedgrade.

I will be uploading new tutorials by the end of the week. I will also be uploading more before and after comparisons next week including one from an indie comedy shot on the Red One. It looks amazing...you be the judge.

While your there check out Speedlooks. They are entirely new concept in color correction plug-ins. Speedlooks provide true 35mm digital film emulation in realtime and will change the way you color correct for ever...hehehe. Our first release includes 5 Looks. SL-3500 CLEAN has been very popular since its release a couple of weeks ago. It includes emulations of both Fuji and Kodak shooting stocks.

Sign up for our newsletter for the lateset updates.

Jeff

[Manfred Baulig]

Hi,

I know its an old thread, but I've a problem with the EDL workflow.
When I save as EDL and try to open it in Speedgrade a warning pops up saying: Key is not supported (or smth---I've the german version)
With a new project it works flawless. Could it be, that my dynamic Link connections, Alpha Channels and reframed Clips arent supported by Speedgrade yet?
I'd hate to go the DPX route.

Regards