AF EPIC tests finished - its the future.

[Carl Elster]

Reading this thread I feel both excited about the new technology and utterly horrified....

I just bought a set of 5 Zeiss Cp.2's less than a year ago. I took out a huge loan to do so but I told myself "Hey, a good set of lenses will last me 5, maybe 10 years... They never go obsolete and I can always sell them for very little depreciation..." I did a lot of research before settling on the CP.2's. I even sold some Canon L series primes to pay for them.

Now I'm reading your posts and I'm scared shitless. Was my $25, 000 investment a total waste? Should I quickly sell my lenses before the rest of the industry catches on and instead spend my hard earned (and borrowed) money on Canon AF lenses? I could get a whole wackload of Canon lenses for $25 000. I know what you're going to say... Keep the PL primes, they are a still a good investment and invest in some super fast Canon AF lenses as well. BUT I can't afford to do both.

I was trained as a film cinematographer and trained on manual PL lenses. I love the mechanics. I love the look and feel of my CP2's but I shoot without an assistant A LOT. The kind of productions I am on in this stage of my career, autofocus would be a god send to me. I want to embrace this technology but I just spent a fortune on a set of manual PL lenses.

What should I do?

By the way, I just got my Scarlet so I haven't had a chance to try the AF. But if it is as good as you make it sound, I will be using it a lot especially since I usually pull my own focus....

[Matthew Richard Harris]

Mark thanks for this, I have a slew of AF Canon lenses and have been manually focusing while run and gunning, i'll try the autofocus tomorrow.

[TJ Hellmuth]

I got pretty pumped about this post, and did some testing and offered this technique to a fashion photographer on a pretty big shoot today. he was stoked about it, and we tried it because we had two bodies today (one epic, one canon scarlet), but when the time came, he could not get a good focus on the model's face. It basically kept failing, and he could not change the focus without it rolling all the way through the lens's focus through each time. The motors weren't slow, but going through the entire throw of the camera each time was just frustrating. But the worst part was that he just could not get good results out of a person's face. I wonder if I was missing something. I want this to work SO badly, and I've seen it work beautifully with a steady camera looking at inanimate things, but with a handheld camera doing a closeup of a model, it just can't find the focus reliably. its easier to just use a manual prime and a focus confirmation. We definitely used contrasty edges like dark har against white skin, etc, but now luck. For now, I think this feature needs to be explored more and at the very least used for B-roll. I used the "single mode" and a 50 prime, L series, and 70-200mm. But it was just not working for us yet. I definitely look forward to hearing how things go with this technique on your commercial, and what you do and don't recommend from your experiences. Thanks again for your post. Always exciting and challenging.

[Scott Crawley]

It always focuses through as it searches for the right point. I find the 24-70 to be relatively slow but the 70-200 is much faster and sometimes acceptable. I have experienced complete failures too, on inanimate objects that I thought had a useable edge, but the BG contained some under-exposure and noise. I'm currently thinking that was part of my problem.

I plan to try some other glass and practice more but as of now I wouldn't use it on the fly, rather for pre-focusing. Rack mode works brilliantly!

I got pretty pumped about this post, and did some testing and offered this technique to a fashion photographer on a pretty big shoot today. he was stoked about it, and we tried it because we had two bodies today (one epic, one canon scarlet), but when the time came, he could not get a good focus on the model's face. It basically kept failing, and he could not change the focus without it rolling all the way through the lens's focus through each time. The motors weren't slow, but going through the entire throw of the camera each time was just frustrating. But the worst part was that he just could not get good results out of a person's face. I wonder if I was missing something. I want this to work SO badly, and I've seen it work beautifully with a steady camera looking at inanimate things, but with a handheld camera doing a closeup of a model, it just can't find the focus reliably. its easier to just use a manual prime and a focus confirmation. We definitely used contrasty edges like dark har against white skin, etc, but now luck. For now, I think this feature needs to be explored more and at the very least used for B-roll. I used the "single mode" and a 50 prime, L series, and 70-200mm. But it was just not working for us yet. I definitely look forward to hearing how things go with this technique on your commercial, and what you do and don't recommend from your experiences. Thanks again for your post. Always exciting and challenging.

[TJ Hellmuth]

I'm basically noticing that its great for things in bright daylight that aren't moving, but its not yet good enough at the 4-10' range where the operator is trying to do it handheld and the subject also has some of their own movement. I think that the motion blur at that point has something to do with it. The camera keeps hunting, and then gives up much of the time. I suppose, if there were more light, or I were shooting with a shallow shutter, or I could ask the talent to hold still for a second it would work, but I obviously don't want to ask them to hold still for focus marks because I believe you shouldn't have to do that. Thats what a focus puller is for. And even then, you are locked into that distance for the whole take, so its not helpful.... YET. I agree I look forward to the future of this technology. And I definitely look forward to using this current autofocus on my next b-roll day!

[Scott Crawley]

That seems to be consistent with what Toia was saying, and with my limited experience with it so far. Hitting a moving target from a moving platform is an extremely difficult task, particularly if they moving directly toward one another. Motion blur is yet another fly in the ointment. With those things in mind my initial session was on sticks with inanimate objects and I still had occasional failures. My next step is to take it outdoors into more light and then maybe get off of the sticks.

Of the two lenses you used, was one noticeably better than the other?

I'm basically noticing that its great for things in bright daylight that aren't moving, but its not yet good enough at the 4-10' range where the operator is trying to do it handheld and the subject also has some of their own movement. I think that the motion blur at that point has something to do with it. The camera keeps hunting, and then gives up much of the time. I suppose, if there were more light, or I were shooting with a shallow shutter, or I could ask the talent to hold still for a second it would work, but I obviously don't want to ask them to hold still for focus marks because I believe you shouldn't have to do that. Thats what a focus puller is for. And even then, you are locked into that distance for the whole take, so its not helpful.... YET. I agree I look forward to the future of this technology. And I definitely look forward to using this current autofocus on my next b-roll day!

[Michael Brennan]

If we agree that in the current auto focus Epic Combo subject and camera need to remain at constant distance (more problematic if you are hand holding and the subject is close) and that the system takes longer to work at wide apertures...
An expereinced craft doc operator can pull focus on the fly HD with very good accuracy, but 4k is a lot harder to nail given current viewfinder resolutions, without searching past the sweet spot and then reversing the back the focus ring a little.
I wonder if there is a semi auto focus mode that could assists pull focussing by the doc operator by letting him pull the majority of the move and then tweak the end of the move?
For doc work the subject to camera distance is often moving and slight tweaks need to be made on the fly and also framing exposure and focus needs to be on the money for minutes at a time whilst we wait for the uncontrolled subject to play ball.

Mike Brennan

[Dave Digby]

A "snapping" focus mode, similar to an edit timeline, where the operator pulls it close and then the AF snaps to the nearest edge, without hunting, would be fantastic.

I wonder if there is a semi auto focus mode that could assists pull focussing by the doc operator by letting him pull the majority of the move and then tweak the end of the move?

[Stefan Antonescu]

Mark, I'm very curious about the new firmware with the new autofocus algorithms :
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...oshop-Plugin-)

When you'll have a chance to use it, please let us know what you think. :)

[Alexandros Tsoupras]

Mark, I'm very curious about the new firmware with the new autofocus algorithms :
http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthread.php?77192-Camera-Firmware-RCX-Pro-Build-13-beta-(includes-RED-player-and-Photoshop-Plugin-)

When you'll have a chance to use it, please let us know what you think. :)

+1 on that. Thanks Mark.