Thread: Color balancing Scarlet-X and Canon C300

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  1. #11  
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    Rez charts look interesting. Be nice to see originals. 4 leaf clover vs. pink eye.
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  2. #12  
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    I am really interested to see the results of this as I am really close to buying an Epic with a C300 as a B-Cam and to shoot on projects that do not stretch on budget/post.
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    "Thanks for sharing, but I have to ask: Why set the scarlet to 3400K and put an 85 filter? Why not just go with 5600K in câmera since it is what is closest to it`s native color temperature? And why not do the same with the C300?"

    Interesting question. I could understand if you were going the other way - 80A filter under tungsten light to daylight adjust to the sensor's native 5000K so as not to clip the red channel - but why the 85 in daylight and shooting in tungsten WB? I'm sure you've got a reason. Just curious what it is. Is the c300 sensor natively closer to tungsten? It's interesting that in all these tests the Scarlet, being the more flexible camera, has to be the one to be adjusted to the lower image quality cameras, eg 5D, C300, and hence downgraded. It's got a new role as a chameleon B-cam, matching our other cameras. Seems like a bit of a waste but handy nonetheless when you need two cameras but don't need the higher quality of the Scarlet's native performance. I've got a Scarlet and a 5D and hadn't thought of using them together in this way until now. Some bright chaps will no doubt come up with some template colour-matching settings in RedCine X for Scarlet to match these other cameras. If I beat them to it I'll post the results.
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  4. #14 C300 moiré pattern and sensor blooming 
    Senior Member Sanjin Jukic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by James Fleming View Post
    "Thanks for sharing, but I have to ask: Why set the scarlet to 3400K and put an 85 filter? Why not just go with 5600K in câmera since it is what is closest to it`s native color temperature? And why not do the same with the C300?"

    Interesting question. I could understand if you were going the other way - 80A filter under tungsten light to daylight adjust to the sensor's native 5000K so as not to clip the red channel - but why the 85 in daylight and shooting in tungsten WB? I'm sure you've got a reason. Just curious what it is. Is the c300 sensor natively closer to tungsten? It's interesting that in all these tests the Scarlet, being the more flexible camera, has to be the one to be adjusted to the lower image quality cameras, eg 5D, C300, and hence downgraded. It's got a new role as a chameleon B-cam, matching our other cameras. Seems like a bit of a waste but handy nonetheless when you need two cameras but don't need the higher quality of the Scarlet's native performance. I've got a Scarlet and a 5D and hadn't thought of using them together in this way until now. Some bright chaps will no doubt come up with some template colour-matching settings in RedCine X for Scarlet to match these other cameras. If I beat them to it I'll post the results.
    The main reason that I will use more often this combination of 85N9±CircPola filters is that I found a color shift with that particular combination

    is more pleasant than what I get with combo ND1.2 or ND.1.6...plus any of HotMirrors especially with a comparison at the sky color.

    Also I will use more often that combo but of course not all the time and it depends on many different circumstances...

    One of the reason I bought C300 is because of its superior low light performance (!!!???).

    But I still have to do some serious testing in that direction to confirm or deny this performance.

    Now go back to the real world test to see one new outdoor test from yesterday where I found out that Scarlet just beats C300 in many ways.

    It's about the significant flaws of C300 that showed up at the exterior sunny daylight testing from yesterday

    and also of the same I couldn't find on Scarlet-X images.


    So what happened?

    The same artifacts that you can find mostly at any DSLR footage:

    1. Spatial aliasing with the Moiré pattern
    2. Sensor blooming made the brightening or overexposing of the pixels that showed up with green color fringing.
    3. Monitoring on C300 with LCD and viewfinder in a bright sunny daylight also sucks.


    Read more about C300 Moiré by Aliister Chapman.

    BTW, Scarlet-X totally smashed C300 at outdoor bright daylight with on the camera monitoring (RED PRO 5.0" TS), easy in camera adjustment, image quality (IQ)

    and also incredible post pre-viewing of R3D RAW files using RED ROCKET HD-SDI at HP Dreamcolor a wide gamut 24" LCD with RCX-Pro RAW post processing of the images.


    Also I was running those first tests with C300 at default camera adjustment (see above) that probably should be change in the future...

    Have a look at the images below in click at the image to enlarge in HD 1080 16:9 size:


    The Spatial aliasing with the Moiré pattern visible at the striped wooden facade of the building.
    Shot on Canon C300 with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 28-90mm f/2.8-4 @35mm, EI 850 (ISO), f/8, 6600K, Filters: ND2 (4 stops) in camera, Circ-Pola Tiffen.


    DETAIL: The Spatial aliasing with the Moiré pattern visible at the striped wooden facade of the building.
    Shot on Canon C300 with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 28-90mm f/2.8-4 @35mm, EI 850 (ISO), f/8, 6600K, Filters: ND2 (4 stops) in camera, Circ-Pola Tiffen.


    No any visible spatial aliasing with the Moiré pattern.
    Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 21-35mm f/3.5-4 @ 35mm, EI 320 (ISO), f/8, 3400K, Filters: 85N9 Tiffen, Circ-Pola Formatt.


    DETAIL: No any visible spatial aliasing with the Moiré pattern.
    Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 21-35mm f/3.5-4 @ 35mm, EI 320 (ISO), f/8, 3400K, Filters: 85N9 Tiffen, Circ-Pola Format


    The sensor blooming made the brightening or overexposing of the pixels that showed up with the green color fringing.
    Shot on Canon C300 with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 28-90mm f/2.8-4 @35mm, EI 850 (ISO), f/8, 6600K, Filters: ND2 (4 stops) in camera, Circ-Pola Tiffen.


    DETAIL: The sensor blooming made the brightening or overexposing of the pixels that showed up with the green color fringing.
    Shot on Canon C300 with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 28-90mm f/2.8-4 @35mm, EI 850 (ISO), f/8, 6600K, Filters: ND2 (4 stops) in camera, Circ-Pola Tiffen.


    No any visible sensor blooming or similar artifacts and aberrations.
    Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 21-35mm f/3.5-4 @ 35mm, EI 320 (ISO), f/8, 3400K, Filters: 85N9 Tiffen, Circ-Pola Formatt.


    DETAIL: No any visible sensor blooming or similar artifacts and aberrations.
    Shot on Scarlet-X with Leica Vario Elmarit-R 21-35mm f/3.5-4 @ 35mm, EI 320 (ISO), f/8, 3400K, Filters: 85N9 Tiffen, Circ-Pola Formatt.


    Day Two Outdoor Test BTS shot on Canon 5DMK2 with Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM: Scarlet-X and Canon C300on the beach.


    Day Two Outdoor Test BTS shot on Canon 5DMK2 with Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II USM: Scarlet-X and Canon C300 on the beach.
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  5. #15  
    Senior Member Sanjin Jukic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Les Dittert View Post
    Have you tried a 3d lut to get the color to match ?

    Here is Red colored to match Canon:
    No I haven't still try out with any 3D LUT.

    That would come probably later in a sort of fine tuning phase.

    The first are more or less a rough tests...
    "There is no point in having sharp images when you've fuzzy ideas."
    Jean-Luc Godard.

    Dynamic range is, after all, the measurement between well saturation (photosite blowout) and noise floor.
    Thom Hogan
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  6. #16  
    Senior Member Kemalettin Sert's Avatar
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    thanks for the tests Sanjin
    EPIC-X 7424
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  7. #17  
    Senior Member Jake Bastian's Avatar
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    Sanjin, these are really interesting tests but I have to say that regardless of your personal preference for how the 85 filter corrects the color shift when using ND filters on RED camera this is NOT the proper way to correct this shift and will only result in an image that has IR pollution AND 85 color tint.

    I recognize that this is not really a scientific test per say, but if you really want to balance the color between two cameras, it's best to start the most pure color possible from both cameras. The way to do that is with an IR or preferably Hot Mirror filter on the Scarlet, not an 85.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kemalettin Sert View Post
    thanks for the tests Sanjin
    Kemalettin,

    You're welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jake Bastian View Post
    Sanjin, these are really interesting tests but I have to say that regardless of your personal preference for how the 85 filter corrects the color shift when using ND filters on RED camera this is NOT the proper way to correct this shift and will only result in an image that has IR pollution AND 85 color tint.

    I recognize that this is not really a scientific test per say, but if you really want to balance the color between two cameras, it's best to start the most pure color possible from both cameras. The way to do that is with an IR or preferably Hot Mirror filter on the Scarlet, not an 85.
    Jake,

    Also it's not only about a color shift in blacks using Hot Mirrors, it's more about getting a true blue sky(s) with 85ND9±Pola filters.

    My next outdoor test will also include both variants 85N9 (that's actually in one glass filter, also I have another one as a gel slice from LEE Filters), ND0.9+Hot Mirror and ND1.2+Hot Mirror.

    Then we'll see what is better?!
    "There is no point in having sharp images when you've fuzzy ideas."
    Jean-Luc Godard.

    Dynamic range is, after all, the measurement between well saturation (photosite blowout) and noise floor.
    Thom Hogan
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  9. #19  
    Senior Member Jake Bastian's Avatar
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    Awesome! I'll look forward to seeing the results.
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  10. #20  
    Senior Member Alvise Tedesco's Avatar
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    Thanks Sanjin!!!
    If many, here, aren't surprised, I am.
    Happily surprised and I will sell your findings with my Scarlet
    At least before dusk, hehe
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