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  1. #11  
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    Whether a camera has 16bit or 24bit audio is not exactly my point, no. Maybe you're joking, I'm not sure. I think we're talking about different worlds of television and film production, which is totally fine :). The one I work in does not view half the project as a "luxury," "impractical" nor, as one person here calls the people responsible for half the whole project, "extra baggage." To get a perspective on that, imagine calling the camera operator a luxury or impractical and you'll get it. Again, it's okay. There are different worlds of film/tv production and I'm not familiar with all of them, just the ones where they need both halves of the project.



    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart English View Post
    Are you saying a lot of other cameras record at 24bit / 48KHz ? If so that's incorrect, go check out the specs for Sony F3 and Canon C300 for example ...

    This is not an argument that using a directly attached mic is better than running a separate sound mixer, of course it isn't. But there are workflows where you don't have that luxury, or where the needs of post production mean you want the best possible sound quality directly on the camera - whether that's from a directly attached mic, wireless audio link, XLR analog line or AES/EBU digital input.
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  #12  
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    Arnold, this thread originated as a question about the technical capability of the Scarlet audio system, it's not a discussion of the relative importance of audio v's video in the production. I'm not sure I read anyone here say "extra baggage", but even if they did that's nonsense. Audio IS half the experience, but there are also different use cases, some won't support a separate mixer or sound mixer / recorder, so the camera's audio recording fidelity is very important to us.
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  3. #13  
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    Stuart, I totally agree with you on how the thread started - then we all took it in a tangential direction, like so many threads here. Don't sweat it! Let's get back on topic!

    I'll take everyone's word that RED has improved some audio components in their cameras. I really know nothing about that evolution nor is it important that I do. Like I said, I'm certain that a point and shoot now shoots better video than it did 3 years ago - I know nothing about that evolution, either, nor do any of us need to because we won't consider recording picture that way. :) As I've indicated, I'm absolutely certain that the audio in RED cameras is sufficient for scratch tracks and shooting like B-roll, etc. No issues there. Cheers.




    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart English View Post
    Arnold, this thread originated as a question about the technical capability of the Scarlet audio system, it's not a discussion of the relative importance of audio v's video in the production. I'm not sure I read anyone here say "extra baggage", but even if they did that's nonsense. Audio IS half the experience, but there are also different use cases, some won't support a separate mixer or sound mixer / recorder, so the camera's audio recording fidelity is very important to us.
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  #14  
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    i.e. for cinematic / high end production applications it's fine for double system scratch track and / or B roll, and for non-cinematic / high end production applications it's fine as the primary audio recording...
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  5. #15  
    We often use the internal mic's only for production and they have thus far exceeded our expectations including large spot work that the client has been more than pleased with.

    Outside of any one cameras capabilities, understanding noise floor and recording a properly 'thick' audio signal is crucial.
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  #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Diamond View Post
    We often use the internal mic's only for production and they have thus far exceeded our expectations including large spot work that the client has been more than pleased with.

    Outside of any one cameras capabilities, understanding noise floor and recording a properly 'thick' audio signal is crucial.
    Totally agree with that - same concept as a RAW video recording in many ways.
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meryem Ersoz View Post
    EPIC/SCARLET audio isn't fully cooked yet, but my RED ONE audio boards rivaled my audio mixer's Sound Devices recorder. My hope is that the EPIC/SCARLET will eventually rival the RED ONE, even if it means purchasing the Pro I/O Module. My EPIC is definitely noisier than my RED ONEs, and I just received a SCARLET yesterday and haven't done any audio testing.

    But to say that recording "anything but a scratch track in any RED camera" is a bad idea is just spreading FUD. These cameras are quite young. Give them time. Enhancements will be forthcoming....throughout the life of the camera....
    Just shot a commercial on scarlet. x A box into the mini jacks. Sounds perfect.
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  8. #18  
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold F. View Post
    I really know nothing about that evolution nor is it important that I do.
    I think that knowing the history of the camera--where the RED ONE came from, how it evolved, what applications it is successfully used for, today -- actually is rather important to new users who may make wrong-headed assumptions about where it stands today. Maybe not for you, but I definitely think it's worth challenging the statement that RED ONE's audio (and eventually EPIC/SCARLET, as they evolve) is unuseable in high-end applications. Is it the best option? No, of course not, but there are environments where sometimes it is the only option. I can name a number of notable applications (a NOVA science doc, a commercial which I shot in Bhutan, and a Wounded Warriors commercial which aired on Lifetime) are three projects which come to mind, which I shot and could only use onboard audio, for a variety of different reasons. All three projects were broadcast nationally. Saying you "won't" use RED's onboard audio is different from saying you "can't" - it's quite useable, and real people are using it for real projects.
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  9. #19  
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    Arnold, shot a simple TVC on my own the other day. Had a wireless lapel going straight to channel 1, and a boom mic direct to channel 2 via x, no mixer at all.

    Set and tested the level, monitored video and audio carefully during each take, went back to the studio and made a great spot, no fuss.

    Took me a lot of trial and error to get a clean signal when I first got the Epic, but slowly learning to trust the results.

    Still not as foolproof as the R1, but the hardware appears to be solid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold F. View Post
    Jim, if you're able to operate camera and a sound mixer and recorder, and properly boom all at the same time you're a better man than me! In any case, you're dead right about the very limited usefulness of a camera-mounted mic. It's able to record the audio from a "scene" exactly as well as a camera-mounted light illuminates the scene.

    I would not say that it being a professional camera means it shouldn't have a mic. Some do, some don't. I agree that with this camera, mic or no, we're at the production level where there should be someone shooting the other half of the film. It's no longer DIY here and I have to laugh when I see rig photos with a shotgun mounted on it.

    For those cameras that do have sound inputs, I've never seen any stranger than what's on the Scarlet. I would never record audio meant for anything but a scratch track in any Red camera.
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  10. #20  
    Hey Michael, since there is no internal mic a lot of people have been using a Rode Video Mic Pro to record scratch audio tracks on Scarlet and Epic. However, there is a modification needed. I know it sounds crazy, but you simply have to cut one wire inside the mic and you're good to go. You can read all about it here: http://www.reduser.net/forum/showthr...h-Scarlet-Epic
    Of course there are lots of other options, so do your research and choose the best one for you. Peace.
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