Thread: Some observations

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  1. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn Kumst View Post
    In the days of film and in the days of people training to be operators and dp's we had panning speed tables. Pan to fast and there was a strobing motion. Unpleasant images. So we learned the rules and then new how to break them. The same things apply today. Experience does count. Knowledge does count. Cameras have become too affordable. Blaming the tools does not count.

    The LA Complex was shot entirely handheld. Screening on the CW
    I was with you, right up to "Cameras have become too affordable." Do you really mean to be so elitist? Are you suggesting that only skilled persons should have access to good tools?

    Edit: To clarify, I don't mean to presume you are elitist. Please forgive me if that seemed rude. I ask most sincerely; is that your meaning, that students should not work on professional tools and only a select, privileged few should have access?
    Last edited by Scott Crawley; 02-26-2012 at 01:15 PM.
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  2. #12  
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    I think he means that the affordability of these cameras make it easier for dilettantes, like myself, to have access to them without the traditional training and I totally agree. As a former production mixer I think it's nutty that people here think they can do their own sound. So, being able to buy a camera now makes you a DP AND a Production Mixer. They think a shotgun on top of a camera is good enough to shoot a feature. One even refers to Production Mixers, who are responsible for half the shoot, as "extra baggage."

    In any case, let's move beyond this and stick to topic, which has yet to be completely defined. I think it's important. Am I about to buy a camera that has too many rolling shutter issues to be shoulder mounted?
    Last edited by Arnold F.; 02-26-2012 at 11:31 AM.
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  3. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold F. View Post
    I think he means that the affordability of these cameras make it easier for dilettantes, like myself, have access to them without the traditional training and I totally agree. As a former production mixer I think it's nutty that people here think they can do their own sound. So, being able to buy a camera now makes you a DP AND a Production Mixer. They think a shotgun on top of a camera is good enough to shoot a feature.

    In any case, let's move beyond this and stick to topic, which has yet to be completely defined. I think it's important. Am I about to buy a camera that has too many rolling shutter issues to be shoulder mounted?
    I believe he was saying that you need to know the technical limitations of your tools in order to get them to function properly, and that is right on topic. My intention isn't to jack the thread, rather to clarify. The cost of the tool is not a factor, and novice operators are not better served by an environment where cost prohibits them from learning on professional grade tools.
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    Agreed and no worries :). The question remains, must you have a Scarlet locked down to avoid rolling shutter issues? What's the definition here?

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Crawley View Post
    I believe he was saying that you need to know the technical limitations of your tools in order to get them to function properly, and that is right on topic. My intention isn't to jack the thread, rather to clarify. The cost of the tool is not a factor.
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  5. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold F. View Post
    Agreed and no worries :). The question remains, must you have a Scarlet locked down to avoid rolling shutter issues? What's the definition here?
    No you don't, but you need to know what panning speeds will work, and which will not. Has anyone generated tables for this yet?
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  6. #16  
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    I don't think the OP meant panning but I also see now after a re-read of the original post (which has some punctuation/grammar issues so it was hard to read) that he indicates that shoulder mount has been fine. Sorry for not getting that earlier. Tables would be super.

    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Crawley View Post
    No you don't, but you need to know what panning speeds will work, and which will not. Has anyone generated tables for this yet?
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  7. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold F. View Post
    I don't think the OP meant panning but I also see now after a re-read of the original post (which has some punctuation/grammar issues so it was hard to read) that he indicates that shoulder mount has been fine. Sorry for not getting that earlier. Tables would be super.
    Well his biggest dissapointment has been rolling shutter, and that is primarily a problem in panning, whether on a tripod, your shoulder or in your hands. He seems to be observing that it was less of an issue on the shoulder and I would agree. We tend to pan slower and with less oscillating kinds of motion on the shoulder, than with the other methods and that means less rolling shutter jello.
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  8. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alwyn Kumst View Post
    In the days of film and in the days of people training to be operators and dp's we had panning speed tables. Pan to fast and there was a strobing motion. Unpleasant images. So we learned the rules and then new how to break them. The same things apply today. Experience does count. Knowledge does count. Cameras have become too affordable. Blaming the tools does not count.

    The LA Complex was shot entirely handheld. Screening on the CW
    I'm not saying handheld cant be done... I just warning other shooters of a real issue. I've been shooting nearly 15 years I know a little of what the rules are and how to break them...one rule with scarlet and epic is past a 50 get a handheld rig ha
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arnold F. View Post
    Are we talking about panning with film or holding the Scarlet out in front of you at arm's length? I'm interested in what the OP is presenting but am not yet clear on the exact issue, which I hope we can define exactly.

    Again, I personally would never hold a camera out in front of me at arm's length. I didn't with any of my small and medium format cameras nor any of my digital cameras. Since my Scarlet will probably weigh over 10 pounds it will be hard for me to do, anyway. Also, it would be hard for me to see the monitor and hold the camera with one hand and focus with the other all at full arm's length. Correct me if I'm wrong but this shooting style seems to come from DSLR shooters who haven't been able to get a finder.

    The "handheld" I intend to do will be on a shoulder rig, which has about the same amount of movement as the "handheld" style the OP describes (at least before fatigue shaking sets in). May I infer then that a shoulder rig is also too unstable for the Scarlet?
    With a shoulder rig you are fine... Unles you do a whip pan, but as we all know that's kind of a no no with film as well so no biggie. It's one of those things that you just need to test... It's there and given the right ( or wrong, however you want to view it) circumstances its going to get nasty. We had a very important shot of Willie Nelson that I was about to vomit over due to the jello... Luckily there are some good software fixes out there. I was about to die though... Biggest directorial moment of my life and a final shot looks like jello... Don't want any of you guys in the same boat
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  10. #20  
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    Here is some rolling shutter on a whip pan.
    Scarlet-X at 3K 48fps, 180 degree shutter and 250mm.

    http://vimeo.com/37522370
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