Matte box advantages

[Jonas Klittmark]

Hi guys,

As I'm waiting for my Scarlet to finally be delivered (yay!) I am contemplating whether or not to invest in a matte box for it. I will be using Zeiss ZF lenses and a Tokina 11-16. I realize that the general notion is that I should be using a matte box now that I'm stepping it up to the professional level, but even so, I want to understand why.

On the downside, in addition to adding cost it adds weight and bulk. Also it annihilates any lingering hopes of shooting guerilla style with the Scarlet (not that they're that great to begin with).

So what are the pros?
- Removing flares - Well, I get it but it's not been a huge concern for me so far, maybe because a) the Zeiss lenses are fairly resistant b) flagging it if it's bad is not that hard c) I like the look of it sometimes
- Allowing general filter use - Well, I am hoping that my current set of screw-on 77 mm filters (ND, vari-ND and pola) will do the trick. Maybe I'm missing something?
- Sliding graduated filters - OK, this seems great and is something I have been missing!
- Contrast - this is where it gets interesting. Aside from obvious flares already mentioned, does it also have an impact on contrast in general? Some of the washed out sunny footage I see from amateurs seems to lack a lot of contrast without having obvious flares. Would it have been fixed by using a matte box?
- Anything else? OK, for paid work I get the "I want to look professional"-factor, but I will be shooting my own Indie film(s) so it's not a factor for me right now.

Sorry to post such a basic question but I couldn't find the answer by looking through any current threads. Please be nice. :)

Best regards,
Jonas

[Eric-taner]

Yes you got it Jonas its all about the "I want to look professional"-factor, even do many don't like to be honest in that way. i did many tests with, and with out a matte box, and unless you don't have a very difficult light situation, you will never see a difference.
so save that money for something that will really make your movie look different.

[Philipe Ratton]

[QUOTE=Eric-taner;948402]Yes you got it Jonas its all about the "I want to look professional"-factor, even do many don't like to be honest in that way. i did many tests with, and with out a matte box, and unless you don't have a very difficult light situation, you will never see a difference.
so save that money for something that will really make your movie look different.[/LolQUOTE]
Lol, this is so wrong it's even funny.

[daniel caruso]

haha, so true eric, i love the look of my mattbox on, it just..completes the camera.

But to be fair, you are used still lenses where you can screw on filters. This conversation would be different if you were using cine lenses, which you can't screw on filters. I use PL lenses so any form of ND or grad etc. needs to be in a filter tray, leaving me to always use my mattebox. This past week I had some over head practicals, so when shooting up, the flood gave me a slight glow to the top frame. It was not needed for the shot. I urged everyone to not touch my lights =], and simply dropped the eyebrow down, cut it right out.

For me and my set up, it is essential and i love having it on, it wraps the lens and holds my filters. See if it applies to your setup and you can make the call. Seems like if you aren't using 4x filters and can screw them on, and want to be somewhat low key, perhaps its not in your need yet. And while we are on matteboxes, I just want to point out the value of a good quality mattebox, there is a big difference in functionality between the brands. Good luck Jonas!

- edit, as a side note, do some test and maybe look into IRND. I used a 1.2 on a 1.5 the other day for 9 stops and everything looked great! Just another suggestion =].

[Jonas Klittmark]

maybe look into IRND. I used a 1.2 on a 1.5 the other day for 9 stops and everything looked great! Just another suggestion =].

I will definitely start looking into it. On the 5D I have been happy with simply using the vari-ND but it sounds like that solution may not be up to par here. Resolution degradation on top of IR color contamination sounds like a high price to pay for the convenience.

I did not notice these problems when we tried with and without the vari-ND on a Scarlet the other day but I guess one test does not prove anything... Maybe the resolution issue is specific to certain focal lengths and the IR to certain scenarios with lots of IR?

[Eric J. Johnston]

haha, so true eric, i love the look of my mattbox on, it just..completes the camera. =].

The "look" is not complete until you have your Oakley's on too!

[Aaron Fronk]

+1 on this. Really trying to figure out if a matte is that important for my needs. We shoot guerrilla all the time, so I'm trying to remove excessive weight.

[M.D. Hilton]

While it's true you can use flags to cut off unwanted flare the matte box gives you advantages over this.

One: time. It's so much easier to adjust a flag on the matte box than to move a c-stand or light stand over and put a flag into position. Over the course of a day this can save quite a bit of time.

Two: space. I don't know about you but shooting in NYC I frequently have to shoot in tiny apartments. Often times the light stands are just out of frame and adding an additional c-stand for a flag (in addition to whatever ones you're using for lighting choices) becomes problematic. If you're shooting in large studio spaces a matte box will be less important (though that top flag is still extremely helpful for taking out flare of the overhead lights...)

Three: choices. If you're using a flag rigged on a c-stand that flag is also going to cut off light that you may want spilling onto a part of your visible scene. Whether its bounced light or whatever, suddenly the scene isn't lit the way you intended. Many times this will be acceptable but other times you'll have to spend more time adjusting to get it back to what you want.

Three: Shooting exteriors. The matte box does a much better job on exteriors of eliminating flare than a screw on. I don't know how many times I've had to change my shot because the screw on wasn't doing the job I wanted.

I used to shoot without a matte box but I was glad when I started borrowing a friend's because it saved me so much time on shoots and just made my life easier. I shoot small so we don't have that many people on set so any time/stress we can save by not having to fiddle with flare is invaluable.

The filter aspect of the matte box isn't that big of a deal to me at the moment but once I start using cine lenses more often it will be.

[Jonas Klittmark]

Great feedback, thanks a bunch guys! I am definitely learning here...

One: time. It's so much easier to adjust a flag on the matte box than to move a c-stand or light stand over and put a flag into position.

That's fair but I wonder if the time saved in setting up the flag is countered by time spent messing with the matte box in combination with still lenses? My lenses all have different front diameters and some of them (particularly the Zeiss 100mm f/2) move quite a bit during focus change etc. I'm not familiar with all the specifics of how to deal with this but it seems to end up with either screwing the matte box on and off of every lens, or changing donuts if it's a swing-away etc.?

Maybe matte-box is not a great combo with still lenses period?

[Jeff Whitehurst]

Great feedback, thanks a bunch guys! I am definitely learning here...



That's fair but I wonder if the time saved in setting up the flag is countered by time spent messing with the matte box in combination with still lenses? My lenses all have different front diameters and some of them (particularly the Zeiss 100mm f/2) move quite a bit during focus change etc. I'm not familiar with all the specifics of how to deal with this but it seems to end up with either screwing the matte box on and off of every lens, or changing donuts if it's a swing-away etc.?

Maybe matte-box is not a great combo with still lenses period?

I am using my clip-on RED mattebox with all my Canon glass, (including telescoping zooms) and I simply bought a 110mm-XXmm mattebox adaptor for each lens and leave it installed.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...Down_Ring.html
10 seconds to remove the box from a lens and replace it, with filters, on the next lens choice. Your proposed system would require that you either unscrew filters from the lens every time you change it out or buy multiple filters. I also think that you might be oversimplifying the use of a flag by assuming you have only one light source. A mattebox assures you have the lens shaded from almost every angle, simultaneously. If you simply set up a shot with no movement and you have only one source of light, sure a flag might work fine. Try to follow on-screen action or change angles and you would need a grip following you around with that flag to keep shade on the lens.

BTW, when I just don't want to deal with packing and carrying a MB, I use the Flex Lens Shade and screw on filters. Works pretty good, but definitely slows things down.

Hope this helps you see why a mattebox is much more than just looking cool.