Workflow for Offboard DnXHD recorder using Red one

[Simon N]

First, please forgive me if my question crosses other posts, however post production is not my forte - I understand the principles however have never really got to grips with AMA, relinking files etc... when it comes to Avid.

My question is this. I have a broadcast job that was previously shot on Red One and the edit on it was a nightmare for production. I did not set up the original shoot, and going back 12 months if I had I would have simply suggested a 2nd avid to transcode the Red rushes and then let the editors do with the transcodes what they wish. I do not pretend to understand how linking back to the original files works, however I know enough to suggest this route as a simple solution.

I have noted the excitement regarding solutions like the PIX240, but this seems better suited to the Epic & Scarlet with 1080p output. I also understand that the output from the Red One is 720p and is obviously more geared towards it being a monitoring path rather than a method to record. So, I need to really understand if it is possible to record to a pix 240 so that the edit can immdiately use the footage, in effect an offline version of the files, and how the edit can link back at a later stage to the original footage? Can anyone give me a simplistic answer to my question please

Regards

[Dermot]

First, please forgive me if my question crosses other posts, however post production is not my forte - I understand the principles however have never really got to grips with AMA, relinking files etc... when it comes to Avid.
if I had I would have simply suggested a 2nd avid to transcode the Red rushes and then let the editors do with the transcodes what they wish. I do not pretend to understand how linking back to the original files works, however I know enough to suggest this route as a simple solution.

in effect an offline version of the files, and how the edit can link back at a later stage to the original footage? Can anyone give me a simplistic answer to my question please
Regards

I really would use MetaFuze - full stop...

if worst came to worst and i had a Avid bin that refrenced DNx made in a pix240 + a disk full of R3D's in my DS i would select conform from alternate sources, select & scan the folder of R3D's and select timecode only.. then hope that that matched and was not overlapping... in short a nasty ugly troublesome conform.
At least DS has tools to deal with this stuff, but it's going to take alot more time in the finishing suite, and it's totaly non-creative and non-productive time.

Yea.. MetaFuze is your friend, or at least it's mine.. i conform a reel of film from a Avid bin & disk of r3d''s in maybe 5 min if the Avid bin refrences the r3d's correctly.
Doing the DNx on an external recorder route i would allow a day to sort all the problems that will arrise and eye matching the stuff that does not conform cleanly.

A day in a finishing suite is more expensive than buying a PC, and installing free MetaFuze at the start of the process, and getting the metadata correct from the get go, then stand back and let Avid take care of the rest.. it does an amazing job

d

[Bruce Allen]

Hmm - with RED ONE, PIX240 doesn't work as well.

Three more options:
1. For me using DaVinci Resolve to make Avid MXF files is very fast and nice for dailies.
Once your edit is locked, just go back into Resolve, do nice color and output HQ DNxHD files. Zero conform hell.

The one big problem with Resolve is that it (currently) does not support outputting audio that was embedded in the R3D. Since I shoot dual-system anyway (Sound Devices 702T, then AutoSync in Avid) this is no problem.

2. If you use sound a lot, try just using RedCine-X Pro? It is quite Avid friendly these days - RED and Avid worked hard to make it so...

3. Just import the R3D files directly via AMA, then if you want to change over to DNxHD, just tell Avid to transcode.

MetaFuze also works of course!

Bruce Allen
www.boacinema.com

[Dermot]

A great list of options from Bruce, all my comments are strictly IMHO;

Option 1 trashes the links back to the r3d's so you better be really, really, REALLY sure you don't need to go back to them, and you now have to live with the orignal choices made in tanscodeing... making quite a nasty conform hell should you want to do any of a number of things that are best done from the r3d's from re-po's & scaling to changeing de-b settings in context.

Option 2 is a good one if your install of RedCineX is stable, we have had issues with it on both Mac & W7

Option 3 is a good one too, ties up a editing system, often we have assists working on the editor's machine at night, so rendering DNx overnight doesn't work well - but if your scheduale allows, that's probbaly the best option

Option 4 - thinking about it, i answered while looking at the world through my porthole...

I'd take Bruce's options in this order; 3, then 4, then 2, lastly 1

But that's the view from my porthole.. i never would conform from anything but the r3d's if the show is shot on RED, i lose too much flexibality, and again looking at the world through my little porthole, gains are minimal.. all changes if you are in the pipeline with series, episodic and other pipeline shows.. i mainly do indy films and mainstream MOW's & TVC's

d

[Simon N]

Thanks for the suggestions so far. My problem as I say is that I'm a DP so the nuances of the Avid workflow are tricky to understand. If I understand correctly, the workflow that has been generally used on the shows I do has been option 3, transcoding the rushes on a seperate avid which is where productions woes have come from - we had editors sitting there twiddling their thumbs waiting for the transcodes to happen, notwithstanding the fact that they had to hire in another machine with red rocket et al and tied up the assistant editor.

I'm looking for a solution with the Red One that will enable a quicker path from camera into the edit. If that means a day at the end matching shots/timecode I think production may prefer that over the time lost initially. I know it's a different beast but I keep getting the Alexa thrown at me due the ease of its post route.

So going down the Metafuze route, how time consuming is it relative to the avid transcode option?

Thanks again

[MichaelP]

Option 1 trashes the links back to the r3d's so you better be really, really, REALLY sure you don't need to go back to them, and you now have to live with the orignal choices made in tanscodeing... making quite a nasty conform hell should you want to do any of a number of things that are best done from the r3d's from re-po's & scaling to changeing de-b settings in context.

This shouldn't be the case if you set up the sources correctly from where it is getting its ID from. In resolve you would use the following syntax: */%R.% and that will get you the full R3D filename as though it were done via REDCINCE X or AMA (although it is closer to REDCINCE X as the filename will end up in the TAPE field whereas AMA puts it in the SOURCE FILE field). I find that if I just want to crank out RMD based dailies, REDICNE X is the one of the better ways to go. Resolve is also good especially if you need that additional control over color correction that it offers. And for R3D only, i would either of those before MetaFuze. MetaFuze is great, but doesn't really offer more than REDCINE X when it comes to R3D.


Michael

Michael

[Dermot]

Thanks for that Michael,
the only time i had to deal with dalies made in Resolve it was a bit of a non-conforming nightmare, but not my nightmare as i sent the whole lot back to off-line to "fix", i'll give it another look.

d