Thread: Noisy Epic footage?

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  1. #31  
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    No viewfinder can display what's in RAW! Use the histogram, ETTR and check your "traffic lights".
    Regards,

    Uli

    My Red is called Vertov after a Russian avantgarde filmmaker, a pioneer in modern cinematography, a true revolutionary who later suffered under Stalin's bureaucracy.
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  2. #32  
    Member Gunnar Nimpuno's Avatar
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    I do have similar problem. Really looking forward to know the cause. PS: didn't experience this on MX. Thanks.
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  3. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Haase View Post
    I have shot more tests yesterday. I did a new black shading with the 2.0.5 beta firmware installed and shot 7:1, 5:1, and 3:1. The noise seems less exaggerated in the new clips than in the one I posted in the original post.
    Do you say "less exagerated" due to the black shading? As compression from 8 to 3 has only little effect over noise?
    Black shanding, exposure and control over color temp could be the key?
    What do you think?

    I remember the early days of ONE-M, with blue screen issues due to misbelief that color temp is only a metadata thing that can be handled in post. Poeple got a lot of noise in the blue channel when lit in T.

    RAW is not only Metadata! ;-)

    Pat
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  4. #34  
    Moderator David Battistella's Avatar
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    We are not suggesting that the metadata setting during black shading affects the black shading, are we?

    It is my understanding that the NATIVE SENSOR WB IS 5000Kelvin and that no WB setting during blackshading affects this.


    Please. Someone from red enter this thread and clear up some of this stuff or we all run the risk of pouring out MYTH instead of FACTS.

    David
    "Love's Labour's lost"
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  5. #35  
    Quote Originally Posted by David Battistella View Post
    Please. Someone from red enter this thread and clear up some of this stuff or we all run the risk of pouring out MYTH instead of FACTS.

    David
    true!
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  6. #36  
    Moderator David Battistella's Avatar
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    Let's break things down a bit. Here is how I understand it.

    BLACK SHADING Calibration
    Scans the sensor and calibrates how the sensor sees black at a specific project framerate, frames per second and shutter angle.

    From that point the RAW view is basically
    320 ISO
    5000 KEVIN

    Whatever light you throw (or don't throw) at the sensor will affect things like noise.

    less light = expect more noise
    tungsten light = expect more blue channel noise

    expose to the right = less noise (you are hitting the sensor hard here but can sacrifice highlights
    expose to the left = dig your image out of teh dirt and expect noise

    To my understanding:

    EPIC M and EPIC X are exactly the same camera (except for the warranty period and machined body) and share the same firmware
    WB and ISO in the metadata DO NOT AFFECT BLACK SHADING CALIBRATION
    SHUTTER ANGLE, FRAME RATE and Frames per second DO AFFECT BLACK SHADING CALIBRATION

    David
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  7. #37  
    Senior Member Mark Toia's Avatar
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    If you flick from RAW to RED COLOR @ 320 iso.. you see know shift in aluminise, brightness, nothing.. other than a flatter look with less colour... such is RAW.

    Flick between RAW to RED COLOR @ 800 iso, you see the image is brighter.. why because you have just underexposed the sensor.

    800 ISO is a great setting for the MX, EPIC chip because it gives the not to talented and 1 stop buffer, helping people not to over expose. Simple safe guard that RED has set to prevent people clipping hi lights. Only problem is, if you under expose a shot, you tend to have to push another stop to get your info back and hence induce more grain...

    And Josh, No I don't ever use the histogram or clipping alerts... I just look at the monitors, touch screen or EVF and honestly... if the high lights are to hot or the sky looks blown out, i quite literally pull back until I get info (that I require) back on the screen.
    If the image looks dark... I open up my aperture until I get all my black detail, or I put a brighter lens on... yes as simple as that.

    I never get blown out hight lights, unless I want them blown out... and I shoot at 320 asa for everything. I never change my ISO in camera.

    Regarding Kelvin settings, I keep that simple too... Daylight I leave at 5600K, Tungsten I leave at 3200k... Thats it.
    Kelvins dont really concern me becuase discard all meta data I shot on set and create a REDLOGFILM film file at a desire white balance during my transcoding process... So i will always have beautifully neutral LOG files to grade.

    This method gives me the cleanest images possible...

    Jump on my website and you can see the results.
    Mark Toia
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  8. #38  
    Moderator David Battistella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Toia View Post
    If you flick from RAW to RED COLOR @ 320 iso.. you see know shift in aluminise, brightness, nothing.. other than a flatter look with less colour... such is RAW.

    Flick between RAW to RED COLOR @ 800 iso, you see the image is brighter.. why because you have just underexposed the sensor.

    I was just explaining this exact thing to a friend on a phonecall just now. That is basically the proof.
    If you go to 320 ISO 5000K (which is where I leave things all the time) then you basically see what the sensor is seeing the RAW view.
    I leave tungsten at 3800K becuase things go a bit blue in "normal" 3200K mode.

    Thanks for posting this Mark, you've helped articulate what I was trying to get across.

    David
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  9. #39  
    Senior Member Mark Toia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OptiTek View Post
    Hate to sound like a broken record :
    If you don't use camera generated exposure tools( false color, histogram, goal posts) you are robbing yourself of a big portion of the raw acquisition advantage.
    Especially if used in combination where one tool (scope, meter) verifies the accuracy of another they make a very accurate exposure control a breeze.
    I'm sure you also realize that the monitoring signals on a digital display are post processed results. By judging based on them you let the camera decide the exposure effectively turning Epic into a video camera- at least for the exposure aspect of aquisition.
    Accurate exposure is the most important aspect of the digital aquisition IMO.
    Never had a hot shot yet... never have unexposed either.... very really do I ever get noisy shots ...

    Im happy with my non correct way of doing things.

    hey, but thanks for sharing.
    Mark Toia
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  10. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Battistella View Post
    I was just explaining this exact thing to a friend on a phonecall just now. That is basically the proof.
    If you go to 320 ISO 5000K (which is where I leave things all the time) then you basically see what the sensor is seeing the RAW view.
    I leave tungsten at 3800K becuase things go a bit blue in "normal" 3200K mode.

    Thanks for posting this Mark, you've helped articulate what I was trying to get across.

    David
    No Problemo.. :)
    Mark Toia
    Director / DP / Founder of Zoom Film & Television

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