Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: Its a great camera, but... some odd quality issues on #112

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  1. #1 Its a great camera, but... some odd quality issues on #112 
    On Dec31th the camera got out of customs, so I had two day to play with the new baby. Yes, its a great camera! No doubt, its well worth the money, and yes, I will be very happy to start working with it. First pictures are looking great and the whole concept is awesome.
    And, of course it is amazing you guys at Red pulled this off...

    but....

    ... I have encountered some strange issues, which I really wasnt expecting on such a high end professional tool. Am I the only one here? Any info from other new camera owners of the December delivery is highly apprechiated.


    1) PL-Mount:
    The shipped PL mount is not a stainless steel mount as shown in the picture Jarred took. It is still anodized aluminium, with a strong tendency to stick and block. It makes strange sounds when turned and feels very (!) different to what is common on a Arricam, 435, Aaton or whatsoever. I had a chance to check out #44 a few months ago, which had the same issue and therefor I finally was very happy, the new mount wasnt using anodized aluminium rubbing against anodized aluminium anymore. But it still is, at least on #112.

    There is a long dissusion about the i/ and LDS contacts going on. If Red has decided to discontinue to ship cameras with those contacts a note in the manual about this would have been helpful. To me it looked like the contacts have been simply forgotten in the assembly.

    2) Loose Battery mounting plate on Cradle
    The battery plate was not fixed on the Cradle (not on the Red Quickplate). You could pull it off about 2mm from the aluminium plate. If anyone encounters something similar: dont try to turn in the screws. They are about 2mm too long!!! I punched a hole in the back side of the plate by turning it in and ruined a second screw on which the head broke off. The only thing is: take the screws out and shorten them about 2mm or get shorter ones.

    Here is a clip: http://www.ready2roll.de/Player/Studio/Redbattery.html

    3) Battery Lock on Quickplate
    The lock on the battery plate is not preventing the battery from falling out of the mount. A fairly small pressure is enough to push the red brick out off its locked position in the V-mount.
    Were talking about professional cine gear here! I dont like to see the battery falling off in a middle of a hand held shot... (For some reason it is only happening on the Quickplate and not on the Red Cradle).
    In general all batteries feel pretty loose in the V-mounts on every Red Mounting plate (but this has been dissused already in various threads).

    4) Side-Handles
    I got one top handle and 2 side handles. One side handle shipped with no end ring. It didnt came of, it was just not there.

    5) Not enough grip of the Side Handles on the Red Handle Mount
    No matter how hard the bolts are tighten these is still a slip of the side handles on the 19mm shaft of the Red handle mount. It is definitly not tight enough for handheld operation. I brought this up at IBC in September when I had the camera on the shoulder, and was told that this is known and worked on. Handles for the Arricam allways have latch washers on all (!) angles that can be adjusted. It can be really dangerous if the handle cant be fixed in wilder handheld situations.

    6) Manual:
    I received a manual for the battery and the charger but none for the camera itself. If it wasnt finished by the time the shipping went out, a simple note would have helped.
    I tripple checked all boxes before I finally downloaded the current version from red.com.

    7) LCD luminance banding:
    My LCD shows a strong banding in luminance, with clearly visible steps on grades. This is nothing I have encountered on other LCD like Transvideo etc. Unfortunatelly I couldnt get a picture of this, because contrast and a moiree made it hard to take a photo here. I might put it later.


    One side note concerning the lenses:
    I asked Kelly to please keep all lenses on hold until there is are metric versions for the scales available. It is somehow frustrating not beeing informed from Red if and when there will be metric scales avaiable. To have metric available cant be such a big problem at all.
    I know for sure ACs wont accept feet-scales here and I will not go to put a marked tape on a brand new lens. It may not me a big deal for Red if they sell a few lenses to me, but it upsets me, that the high demand in metric scales is simply ignored.


    Saying all of this, I still would like to point out one thing:
    No, I dont want my money back... (I might think of returning the batteries and the handle mount with the handles. But still I want to say its a great camera).

    But shipping cameras with such obivious odd things makes me somehow nervous, thinking of the really sophisticated parts inside. My feeling is, if Red wants to push up the amount of cameras shipped every month, a serious improvement in quality control is required.

    Maybe this is all just pure conincidence, some sort of a early monday morning assembly. I really hope so. Let me know what your experience is.


    Thanks,
    Sebastian
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  2. #2  
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    Wow. I'm not impressed. :wacko:

    I really hope that this is all bad luck.

    Regarding the metric scales on lenses:
    I absolutely share your opinion about that. I mean, take a look at this poll.
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  3. #3  
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    An aluminum lens seat should not be a problem as there really is no wear factor involved with that surface. The locking ring itself I think should be stainless because of the wear factor (some versions of the PL mount used aluminum for the outer part of the ring but had a layer of stainless under it). So far as running aluminum against aluminum that's ok if the parts are properly fitted (lapped in to each other) and are lubricated with the proper grease.


    CHUCK
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  4. #4 metrics scale too 
    Good you mentioned the metrics scale issue on lenses.
    Somehow i thought that both systems were engraved at once, because there was no mention about metrics vs. imperial in the store when i ordered my RED lenses.
    Lenses with imperial markings would be quite useless here in Italy :waaa:

    As other issues you mentioned, hope it's bad luck, banded LCD and sloppy side handles seems really bad!

    Hope they're not rushing accessories because of camera delays ...
    Simon Valderrama
    EFX Creative Pool
    www.creativepoolfx.com
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  5. #5  
    we'll check ours out tonight for comparison- even if there is an issue I know that RED will make good on it- from what I've seen so far regarding any issues I've been really impressed by their resolve to fix them- and add improvements.
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  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by chuck colburn View Post
    An aluminum lens seat should not be a problem as there really is no wear factor involved with that surface. The locking ring itself I think should be stainless because of the wear factor (some versions of the PL mount used aluminum for the outer part of the ring but had a layer of stainless under it). So far as running aluminum against aluminum that's ok if the parts are properly fitted (lapped in to each other) and are lubricated with the proper grease.
    Well Chuck, aluminium against steel is not a truly good pairing, if it comes to serious things like a PL-fitting you won't find much alternatives than steel against steel. Lubricating is also an issue, because the lubrication could gas out and smeer the low pass filter.
    Sebastian
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  7. #7  
    thats really poor.

    your probably going to be attacked for posting negative stuff about RED, but its good for future customers to know that good as well as the bad.
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  8.   Click here to go to the next RED TEAM post in this thread.
  #8  
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    This looks like one of those very embarrassing moments. We had a "holiday crew" to help. I'm checking to get to the bottom of this. We will make it right.

    Jim
    "The camera is arguably one of the most important of all inventions it is the single tool that has the ability to stop time, record history, generate art, tell stories, and communicate messages that transcend language like nothing else ever conceived."

    "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude.
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  9. #9  
    Quote Originally Posted by ready2roll View Post
    There is a long dissusion about the i/ and LDS contacts going on. If Red has decided to discontinue to ship cameras with those contacts a note in the manual about this would have been helpful. To me it looked like the contacts have been simply forgotten in the assembly.
    The Red Ops Guide Build 12, p.6 seems to imply the S4/i interface is an option:
    "The PL mount may include an S4/i interface. If installed, this interface permits the camera to communicate with various lenses from RED Digital Cinema, Cooke Optics. Ltd and other lens manufacturers supporting the S4/i protocols."
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  10.   Click here to go to the next RED TEAM post in this thread.
  #10  
    Sebastian, I just sent you an email so we can get this resolved right away. We are sorry for this inconvenience and we appreciate your feedback.
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