Tangent Elements

[paulherrin]

you guys are too funny :)

i really want to start using a panel, but i'm concerned it will make me argumentative.

but seriously, i do want to start using a panel... hopefully i can afford to pick something up in the next year. is there anywhere you can take them for a test run? seems silly to buy something like that without trying it out for at least a bit of time. any suggestions?

oh yeah, merry christmas :)

[Marc Wielage]

Find a good local dealer, and see if they'll let you buy one with a conditional money-back guarantee, maybe for 10 days or so.

Normally, I hate the Tangent panels (having tried to use them before), but I have to say, these don't look too bad, especially for just $3500 (roughly 10% of the Resolve panels):



If Blackmagic doesn't support it, though, I think it'll have limited appeal. Me personally, I think the Resolve panels are great, and I'd hate to have to compromise for something that doesn't have the same feel and flexibility.

Now, if BMD starts to sell theirs at a reasonable, sensible price, as Jeff said, then they can compete with the other options, including Elements.

Given that the old DaVinci panels were $100,000, and the new ones (which are actually better and more reliable) are only $29,995, I think Blackmagic is already doing an exceptional job at reasonable prices. Compare that to, say, the Pablo panels or the Blackmagic panels, which are many times more costly.

[ERIC PECK]

If it supported Resolve, this panel would be a great intermediate step between the current Wave and the 30k$ panel.

[M Most]

Given that the old DaVinci panels were $100,000, and the new ones (which are actually better and more reliable) are only $29,995, I think Blackmagic is already doing an exceptional job at reasonable prices. Compare that to, say, the Pablo panels or the Blackmagic panels, which are many times more costly.

I agree. The age of "free or ultra cheap stuff" has really distorted people's views of what constitutes value, especially here. It's also harmed the ability of companies to make money, but that's another story altogether. In most cases in this business as well as others, you do largely get what you pay for, at least most of the time. The question is whether or not you need it.

I'm not aware of a standalone price for the Neo panel, but the Baselight Blackboard - the original design - goes for a little over $40K last time I checked. The new Blackboard 2 goes for about $65K, but that price floats a bit when you buy a new system that includes it.

[Gabriele Turchi]

The Elements panels look great, but I agree with Jake. I'll buy elements if they get decent Resolve support... Until then... Nope. BMD could sell a truckload of the DaVinci panels if they wanted to, just need to cut the price to 1/5th of what it is now. With all the Resolve licenses out there, and the Lite users, there is no reason to be charging $30K for their panel.

jake did you ever see a davinci panel ?????

is not plastic , it have 60 mapped action on lcd screen ""large"" at the same time (the wave have 9 (the element more , but those are very tiny and never mapped with a direct (underneath button or knob) , it 32 knobs , maaaany buttons , all super solid metal ...

how could it cost 5K ???
so the wave should cost 150 usd??
come on guys let's be realistic ...

i think that resolve should be sold as bundled ONLY with the panel for 20K...but the panel at 5K to me is kind of unrealistic request .

[jake blackstone]

In the interest of complete information:

Hollywood Intermediate ceased to exist over 2 1/2 years ago. It was renamed Next Element prior to Deluxe purchasing the company. It no longer exists because it was closed when Deluxe bought the Ascent companies and a number of us were absorbed into Level 3 Post. That's where I work now and have for the last 9 months or so. Julius hasn't been with the company since the Ascent deal, and I haven't run a Baselight without a Blackboard in over a year and a half. The reason I use an MC Color on my personal system is exactly the reason I stated earlier. I don't need the efficiency that I need in a facility setting where everyone, including me, is on the clock. I don't use it because I prefer it, I use it because it makes economic sense for side work that doesn't have tight deadlines and client interaction. The only reason Julius would say what you state he said is because like many experienced colorists he is something of a creature of habit and was unfamiliar with the Blackboard before we got 5 of them. After using it he didn't want to go back to a keyboard and Cooper setup. Nobody I know does. That is a very typical scenario.

If you're going to make such statements, please try to be a bit more up to date and stop rehashing ancient history as if it's current fact. And stop trying to somehow prove that I'm saying things I either don't believe in, don't practice, or are misleading. Show some respect once in a while, it goes a long way.

Nothing in my statement is incorrect. HI was purchased by Delux and renamed 2 1/2 years ago. That is not such an ancient history by any measure. But even if it was, so what? At the time Julius liked the JL Coolper. So, what? Blackboards appeared only after the Delux purchase and then he liked the Blackboard. Was I wrong to make that statement too?
An overwhelming majority of present Resolve users are independent, tiny one man and women operations, that will never purchase $30k panel. But at $5k or under they just may. Those users clamor for full feature, no compromises, individually configured, well built, inexpensive panels. Right now no present Resolve supported panel fits the bill. BM needs to issue the Resolve panel SDK and start competing in the panel arena on above mentioned features.
This is a discussion board and you occasionally bias you positions to suit your point of view. Nothing wrong with a personal point of view. But when someone points out the inconsistencies, you immediately fly off the handle and accuse them of disrespect. How about sticking with the facts and leaving personal attacks out of it?

[jake blackstone]

jake did you ever see a davinci panel ?????

is not plastic , it have 60 mapped action on lcd screen ""large"" at the same time (the wave have 9 (the element more , but those are very tiny and never mapped with a direct (underneath button or knob) , it 32 knobs , maaaany buttons , all super solid metal ...

how could it cost 5K ???
so the wave should cost 150 usd??
come on guys let's be realistic ...

i think that resolve should be sold as bundled ONLY with the panel for 20K...but the panel at 5K to me is kind of unrealistic request .

Yes, I had seen and used it on many occasions. But I also seen and used many other panels, like Blackboard, Nucoda Film Master control surface or CP-100/200/300. Would I like to have Resolve panel? Sure! Will I buy it? Not a chance. I'm refusing to support a single use hardware, like Resolve panel or RR. MC Color meets all my current needs right now- Smoke, Baselight on FCP, RedCine, Scratch, Resolve, Fuse etc. But that is not the point. I have no problem, that BM charges $30k for the panel. They do not force anyone to buy it. Resolve runs just fine without that panel. It's beautifully built and they have every right to charge whatever they want for it. My main objection is to the support of other panels. By now it is obvious, that BM has no interest in providing inexpensive, robust, user configurable panel support. It had been now over two and a half years, that Resolve had been out, but there is still no inkling of panel SDK of any kind. If there was one by now there would be number of tools, allowing remapping of the controls. And, if there was a panel SDK, there would be no reason to wait for BM to support certain panels, like Elements. Tangent would have done it gladly, knowing, that would then be able to sell a boatload of them. Resolve is kinda unique, because it wants to be the high end app (the usual talking points- Avatar, Company 3 etc) and at the same give it away for free to help selling their hardware. If you ask me, that sounds very much like bipolar disorder:-)

[Luis Otero]

Ditto. Ooops, I did it again.

[jake blackstone]

I hate the Tangent panels (having tried to use them before)

Having used in the past CP-100 quite extensively with Lustre, I have an exact opposite experience. I found CP-100 built incredibly well with great layout. Even now many Lustre colorists prefer CP-100 to Autodesk one (I do). If Elements is anywhere close to the built quality of CP-100 or 200, count me interested.
Please note, I din't include in that list CP-300 i.e Wave. It is, IMHO, complete garbage from the built quality and ergonomics stand point.

[M Most]

How about sticking with the facts and leaving personal attacks out of it?

Only if you agree to do the same.