Thread: mixing 23.98 and 24 avid project

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  1. #1 mixing 23.98 and 24 avid project 
    Hello
    I have a small issue here.
    the "FAIL" is coming from a not so expert canon 5D video operator...
    he tell me that 5D is shoting at 24fps so I put my RED on 24 fps too...
    BUT 24 fps for canon is 23.98....... SH*T!!!!!
    Now I have to mix 24fps from red and 5D at 23.98fps...
    What is supposed to do in AVID? I need to create 23.976 or a 24 fps project????
    thanks for your help.
    Maicol
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member MichaelP's Avatar
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    Are you sure the RED is 24.000 and not 23.976? I take it that this is being done in a PAL based country, so RED is probably at 24.000. What you do is open all Canon footage in a 1080p/23.976 project, open all the RED files in a 1080p/24 project. From the 24p project, open the bins from the 23.976 project and edit away. When editing you will notice a green dot on the clips in the timeline - this is to let you know that there is a mix & match happening for frame rate conversion.

    Michael
    ‎"There are a thousand ways to point a camera, but really only one."
    Ernst Lubitsch
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  3. #3  
    Senior Member Radim Schreiber's Avatar
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    Life would be much easier if 24 was always the same, 24 fps, none of the 23.976949008234 nonsense. It has bacame a serious headache several times for us as well. Recently we found out that Samsung screens do not support 24p in the "auto motion 120hz" mode, where 24fps is supported. One standard going forward would be very much desirable. Same for 30 fps.
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  4. #4  
    Senior Member MichaelP's Avatar
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    Now wasn't that the promise of HD in 1999? One universal format... LOL. Then ATSC ended up with 36 different formats not to mention variety in codecs to complicate the matrix. That being said, standard monitors don't tend to like the PsF signal output of hardware which is meant for VTR's. but prefer the straight up "p" without the segmented frame. v6 Avid added a "p" option to the output for these types of monitors. Matrox also has a control for this in their control panel.

    Once you get rid of all NTSC based color systems in use, you "might" have a shot and harmonizing the fraction rate to the frame rate. I'll still take the difference between 23.976 and 24 compared to 24 and 25. One is only .1% the other is 4.1%.

    Michael
    ‎"There are a thousand ways to point a camera, but really only one."
    Ernst Lubitsch
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  5. #5  
    Hi guys
    I have done the project in this way:
    project 720p 23.976 in Avid. I did not imported the videos inf Avid but I worked with ama links.
    The red videos appear in the timeline with the green dot as Micheal says.
    Finally I exported the video in 720p 23.976 and all seems correct, very good quality too.
    23.976 is a needing for audio or for converting to ntsc?
    anyway my next project will be at 16 fps..! just joking.
    Maicol
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  6. #6  
    other issue:
    If my project and the final result is a res of 1280*720 and I'm working with a 4,5k Red file if I use the the RESIZE command in avid the resize is coming ouf from what? MC is cropping the 4.5k o resizing the 720 linked ama? I don't know if I'm explained well...
    Maicol
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  7. #7  
    Senior Member MichaelP's Avatar
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    Avid raster size is always limited to the resolution of the format. Any frame size larger than the project size is scaled. Any resize being done is from the scaled image - the resize vectors are not extracted from the original 4.5k file. Only pan & zoom offers that feature and is for stills only.

    Michael
    ‎"There are a thousand ways to point a camera, but really only one."
    Ernst Lubitsch
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by MichaelP View Post
    Avid raster size is always limited to the resolution of the format. Any frame size larger than the project size is scaled. Any resize being done is from the scaled image - the resize vectors are not extracted from the original 4.5k file. Only pan & zoom offers that feature and is for stills only.

    Michael
    Ok, but i'm working with AMA links and not with avid rastered files.... to me seems like the resize are coming from higher res. but may be I'm wrong.
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  9. #9  
    Senior Member MichaelP's Avatar
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    AMA scales as well. The debayer is set to to closest next highest resolution - so for a 1920x1080 project, the file is a 2K debayer (if shot at 4K). From there, depending on aspect ratio and all, is scaled to fit in the 16:9 aspect ratio of the 1920 x 1080 resolution. So given a 4K file, AMA with timeline set to green/green is a 1/2 debayer (2K). Green/yellow is 1/4 debayer (1K). If you do a resize effect within Avid on the timeline, it is done with the rescaled hi rez image. It is not sending vectors back and exracting from the original 4K, then rescaling that to 1920 x 1080.

    Michael
    ‎"There are a thousand ways to point a camera, but really only one."
    Ernst Lubitsch
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