RED processing to look like B/W FILM

[Jason Rudd]

So I've taken my film cameras, an Arri IIC, SR2 and 16BL out of storage and I'm on the verge of putting them on Ebay. Something holds me back from doing it. The fact that I can't get a whole lot for these cameras is one reason. Sentimenality, yes that too. But there's another reason which is why I'm posting the question here.

I agree with so many of you, that the Epic and the Alexa, are superior acquisition systems to Film for many, many reasons.

But as we go forward, I would like to know if anyone has been successful in making their digital footage look like B/W film stocks like Double-x, Plus-x, Tri-X reversal. Anybody make their footage look like Adele's "Someone Like You" video, shot on 16mm BW (looks like Double-x)?? Technically it's garbage (grain, dirt, limited latitude) but I like it.

There's so many image enhancement and processing systems available (Nuke, Baselight, After Effects, Nucoda, etc. with a gazillion plugins available). Can someone show me something that mimics BW Film footage very closely / authentic? Adele's video (looks like stuff I did in film school) looks like film because, duh, it was shot on 16mm, and that's why it stands out whereas poor digital mimicry of BW film looks like an SNL skit.

http://search.vimeo.com/30992262

[Evin Grant]

Hmm, are you sure that was 16mm film? if so there was some additional dirt and vignette added in post. I'm not sure if anything like it exists in video but for stills I use Nik Silver FX pro and it produces stunning BW! I know using powerful DI tools like Resolve or Baselight you can do variable channel mixing whichis the first step to BW and doesn't look "ameteur". One thing Nik does is map the actual channel sensitivity, grain and tonal curve for almost all the popular BW films. It'd be a pain in the ass but you could process all the frames throu PS/Nix and import them as a stream after editing.

Here is a still example from Nik I took using a Nikon D3...

[Jason Rudd]

Yes, I'm sure it's 16mm. The DP David Johnson posted it on vimeo and lists it as 16mm. They may have done further pan and scan or crops or a vignette in post.

You picture looks really nice Evan. I'm not sure that it looks like Tri-X or any specific film stock I've used, but it's a good filmic look nevertheless. I've never seen a good replication of BW movie film yet. I'm sure there are some. It would be good to see the samples out there if anyone knows of any, and the workflow behind it.

[M Most]

One of the things often overlooked in attempts to mimic other media is the use of actual references when developing the treatment used. For most people, even those with a lot of years in the business, their memory of how things looked and the actual reality are often two different things. Without real references, it's almost impossible to guess as to what specific characteristics defined past approaches. With a color original, it is possible to use the presence of those colors to alter the brightness and exposure response of different areas of the spectrum, but doing that without having something to reference is not going to get you very far, other than to recreate your personal memory of the look you're going for. These days, it is easy for many of us to look at things like visual effects and claim that shots look "fake." But most high end visual effects artists use photographic references almost all the time, and if you looked at those shots next to the photograph of "reality" you'd likely see a very faithful recreation, regardless of your original reaction to it. So my advice is to play with the three color channels in a black and white viewing environment, and have references directly available to guide you.

[Colin Hubick]

beautiful picture Evin.

[Richard Goodwin]

I wonder what stock was used? And, what lab it was processed at? If you know that then you could begin to dupe the look.

Also there is artificial flashing added (there is zero jitter otherwise so I don't see how some of the brief flashes in the highlights can be from the mechanics of the camera). The frame is very wide for normal 16mm (and I think super 16 too). The imperfect frame crop (which has small areas that protrude into the frame) had to have been added in post, because dirt on the edge of the gate would not stay so perfectly still, and it would not be just a single thickness.

I'm unclear this is really film. But, I'd have to really compare to similar stuff more closely.

To really do top notch job of duplicating a B&W stock in motion processing software you would have likely have to build your own processing tree (in Resolve etc...) or write an effect.

[Marc Wielage]

I know a colorist who did some B&W tests for The Good German, which was shot in color 35mm negative. A combination of custom curves on different color channels and desaturation was done, plus some very precise mid-range settings and tons of power windows. B&W is not nearly as easy as you might think. As Mike says above, essentially, the depth in the image has to come from light and shadow, not from color, so it's very lighting-dependent, even more so than normal color material. I don't think matching a specific stock is as important as just looking at what you've got and doing a lot of tests to see what kind of key-to-fill ratio on the set will yield the right results in color-correction, and then coming up with a curve that holds the highlights.

If you're trying to create a picture that looks like old film (like nitrate), I think puling a defocus "glow/key" will also enhance this kind of effect. But it's a very tricky balance.

Speaking of B&W, I'm curious to see Michel Hazanavicius' new B&W silent film The Artist, which looks for all the world like a "lost" 1930s B&W movie. It's amazing that it was shot in the last year; there's not a lot of people shooting silent movies these days. The brief clips I've seen look pretty extraordinary, and I don't doubt they did a lot of careful lighting on the set and also tweaking in post to get it that way.

[Marc Wielage]

Can someone show me something that mimics BW Film footage very closely / authentic? Adele's video (looks like stuff I did in film school) looks like film because, duh, it was shot on 16mm, and that's why it stands out whereas poor digital mimicry of BW film looks like an SNL skit.

I would also add, a lot of what makes the B&W film look so good is because Adele's video was lit and photographed really well. There is no "one size fits all" magic method to making digital images look like B&W film; I'd say it boils down to careful lighting, good lenses, proper exposure, creative use of filtering, good camerawork, and relying on a good colorist in post. I again say: do lots of tests prior to shooting, and I think it's possible to get close.

I don't think adding grain and unsteadiness (to mimic 16mm) is necessary, but the start-stop speed "flashes" are definitely something that would have to be built in to VFX as a speed ramp and an exposure change. I can recall doing several music videos in the early 1990s where we had some of those in the original footage, but the director decided to add more. We were able to pretty much precisely blow out the image in steps and get very close to a natural over-exposed/desaturated look on the flashes, and I doubt if anybody who saw the video would know which were film and which were recreated in the DaVinci.

[Nick Pasquariello]

Could anyone supply any further tips?

Of course the first most important thing is lighting/shooting properly. But then what is the outline of steps one would take in, say, Resolve or Color in order to get the best B&W look? I know there are tons of different looks and such, but if I want to take color footage and make a nice, modern looking, fully contrasted B&W image, what are some techniques I would try? Is it as simple as adjusting the individual Red, Green, and Blue curves, and then lowering my saturation down to 0?

[Marc Wielage]

Don't forget different gamma settings, different overall custom curves, clip levels, keys, contrast level, and black level. I would balance out the RGB settings to neutral before desaturating, but there's a few different ways to do this.

I believe Alexis Van Hurkman's book Color Correction Handbook: Professional Techniques for Video and Cinema goes into some desaturating techniques in detail. But nothing beats trial and error.