End of Mac Pro???

[Christoffer Glans]

I use PC for finish and online, no gamma issues and DNxHD is better then prores as finishing (when doing low end projects), cross-platform and the same quality as prores.

[Subhadip Sen]

The GoPro-Cineform codec is very impressive. At 100 Mbps it offers similar quality to the ProRes or DNxHD 185 Mbps modes. The best part is it is VFW so no gamma issues or any other troubles of any kind. However, Quicktime is also an option for Mac compatibility. 4:4:4 and 4K are still proprietary though.

Neither of these are finishing codecs though. They are best suited to being intermediate proxies. For finishing, there's no better option than X264 in its various forms. High-CRF X264 10-bit Lossless is pretty incredible as a finishing codec. You can finish at 4K at 400 Mbps, i.e. 50 MB/s. (2K at under 100 Mbps) The quality is superior to ProRes 4444 which is much higher bitrate. You have the option to choose between speed and compression. At Ultrafast and interframe the performance is quite incredible -faster than ProRes/DNxHD/Cineform and it is still more efficient! Of course, if you can compromise with some losses - as you do with DN/PR/CF anyway - you can drop CRF right down to 10. That gives you ProRes 185 Mbps quality at 50 Mbps.

[M Most]

Lightworks for Linux will have ProRes licensed from Apple as part of it's premium (but inexpensive) professional feature package that will be available soon.

I just looked at the Lightworks site again and it doesn't say anything about licensing ProRes from Apple. It does mention licensing DNxHD. All it says is that they will offer ProRes. That could easily mean the open source ffmpeg implementation, and likely does if they're planning on Linux support for it.

It's clear that Jake feels that no commercial vendor will use the open source Prores code for fear of an Apple lawsuit. I think Jake is incorrect on that assumption, and have very solid evidence to support that view.

[jake blackstone]

It's clear that Jake feels that no commercial vendor will use the open source Prores code for fear of an Apple lawsuit. I think Jake is incorrect on that assumption, and have very solid evidence to support that view.

Apple is very proactive, when it comes to protection of their IP, just ask Samsung. And companies, like Image systems, AJA, DVS demonstrated, that full implementation of Prores can be done on other platforms with Apples's blessing, for a price. Said that, I would be very happy, if Prores became cross platform and easily available for implementation by all manufacturers. May be now, with changing of the guards, Apple will be more receptive to this idea. Only time will tell...

[Subhadip Sen]

The FFMPEG ProRes encoder works flawlessy, encode times are a fair bit faster than Apple's OS X encoder. (Although it is fair to say that Premiere Pro is a lot heftier frontend than MeGUI) All it needs is the simple line "-vcodec prores -acodec" in any ffmpeg GUI/CLI frontend between the input and output lines. FFMPEG is VFW compliant, so all it needs is to be installed and it will show up on any Windows based software. All FFMPEG needs now is a Quicktime compliant encoder, so it shows up in the Quicktime section during renders. Just like Cineform or DNxHD or indeed, ProRes in non-Apple software. (Given the vast scope of the open source community - this might already available, unbeknownst to me) This means that the encoder and the software are separate, and the software does not risk any legal hassles with Apple. E.g. if DNxHD was breaching Apple's patents, Apple wouldn't be suing DaVinci, Adobe, Sony and dozens other software integrating the Quicktime SDK. They would go after Avid.

Yes - I have tried encoding ProRes with the VFW encoder, with the hope that it could be remuxed to MOV - but it doesn't work. It needs a Quicktime output. This will become a reality once FFMedia Broadcast merges the latest FFMPEG git, if not sooner with an FFMPEG QT encoder. For now render to an intermediate codec, encode that to ProRes works well. ProRes 4444 is still missing, but 'apch' (HQ), 'apcn' (SD), 'apcs' (LT), 'acpo' (Proxy) are available. Should be there in a future version too.

[M Most]

The FFMPEG ProRes encoder works flawlessy, encode times are a fair bit faster than Apple's OS X encoder.

We've actually found the decoder, running on a Linux host, to be considerably faster than Apple's code. Haven't really tried the encoder yet....

[Christoffer Glans]

DNxHD is now also 444 so +1 for that

[L. Langer]

I just looked at the Lightworks site again and it doesn't say anything about licensing ProRes from Apple. It does mention licensing DNxHD. All it says is that they will offer ProRes. That could easily mean the open source ffmpeg implementation, and likely does if they're planning on Linux support for it.

What I said came straight from the mouth of Editshare. They are licensing the industry-standard production codecs from various companies for use on Windows, Mac OS, and Linux in the Professional/Educational package so they get fully compatible and working technology as the companies made them, without any headaches. That is why ProRes is part of that package as they want to make open-source Lightworks into a professional-grade application with the additional features and codecs that they are incorporating into the software. DNxHD has specific licensing restrictions on it, which is why you will have to pay for it as an add-on separate from the Professional package.

[Subhadip Sen]

We've actually found the decoder, running on a Linux host, to be considerably faster than Apple's code. Haven't really tried the encoder yet....

Yes, it is ironic that ProRes would run faster and play back far more streams real-time in a Linux or Windows app than in Final Cut Pro.