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  1. #171  
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    Right, until one theater does it. Then suddenly it's better than everybody else! Let the upgrades begin!
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  2. #172  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Whitcomb View Post
    What? Amateur is a much broader term than pro. This argument makes no sense. You sound more like a HOBBYIST.. who occasionally works for $. PRofessionals work insaley hard (usually for little pay to get started to earn that moniker) If you are Part time the you are either mot serious or not working hard enough. And I say that with respect... Pro means PROFESSIONAL. Professionals who thrive in this business are all work aholics. Long hours. Be it weddings or features. Becoming a PRO tales TIME.

    Scarlet is a PRO tool. RED has made that crystal clear. Period the end. They also have listened to 1000's of people on here and when Jim says he has your back. I would trust him. Stick with a DSLR until you have gained enough clients to warrant investing in a Scarlett... PLENTY OF PROS (Lafollet and Bloom to name a couple) made a fortune with a DSLR and other prosumer cameras.

    Like I said... $5,000 1/2 of future Scarlet buyers will ignore the above and buy the Scarlet expecting it will print them money...
    Well, I don't think that everyone is (or wants to be) a working pro. Some people just like making films and want more flexibility. Some people may have other jobs (not in the industry) but still want to make a run at film festivals and such. For Scarlet to really be successful (in a market-changing way) it needs to be within reach of these people. That's what made the Canon DSLRs so popular. They allowed almost anyone, even with just mild interest, access to the coveted 35mm look... and took internet film-making to a whole new level. Red needs to one-up them by now introducing the RAW factor and flexible exhibition-grade resolution... to the masses. There's no doubt that Scarlet is going to be a killer camera... but will it remove all thoughts of DSLRs and FS-100 like cameras from people's minds? ... not if it's over $10k.

    I mean, I've a good client base now, and I'll probably be able to get a small-business loan for a Scarlet package at a higher price. But I'd like to see Red decimate ALL markets and makers... and really change the game for good, not just for the working pros. I want to see Red being so competitive, that it becomes the ONLY option... I want to see 50mb/s 4:2:2 footage look like a joke at $5000... I would like to buy TWO Scarlets, not just one.
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  3. #173  
    I tried 4 times to say what you just did and failed.

    Thank you :)
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  4. #174  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bryce O View Post
    Well, I don't think that everyone is (or wants to be) a working pro. Some people just like making films and want more flexibility. Some people may have other jobs (not in the industry) but still want to make a run at film festivals and such. For Scarlet to really be successful (in a market-changing way) it needs to be within reach of these people. That's what made the Canon DSLRs so popular. They allowed almost anyone, even with just mild interest, access to the coveted 35mm look... and took internet film-making to a whole new level. Red needs to one-up them by now introducing the RAW factor and flexible exhibition-grade resolution... to the masses. There's no doubt that Scarlet is going to be a killer camera... but will it remove all thoughts of DSLRs and FS-100 like cameras from people's minds? ... not if it's over $10k.

    I mean, I've a good client base now, and I'll probably be able to get a small-business loan for a Scarlet package at a higher price. But I'd like to see Red decimate ALL markets and makers... and really change the game for good, not just for the working pros.
    Totally agree with you. But I would also light to toss in Film Students, This is the perfect camera for film students, Yeah its a nice chunk of change but you have to look at it like an investment for the future. The Scarlet will do a great job in future-proofing students until they graduate and pick up a job. And even then I could see it lasting them much longer then that.

    Just my .02
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  5. #175  
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    im pretty sure i think i recall jim saying that he viewed PRO as a philosophy and not simply a reference to full-time industry people. please correct me if im wrong here. to call out someone as not being pro enough for a scarlet seems antithetical to what RED has stood for. perhaps the imminent release of scarlet is making some in the industry a little uneasy. if so, i can only imagine that to be a good thing going forward.

    scarlet, like the red one, and like epic should be available to anyone who is willing to buy one. well, except perhaps those with bad attitudes. whether or not the camera is right for someone is a personal decision. for many filmmaking is a passion, not a mere job.
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  6. #176  
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    We got ourselves some Elitists in here. Some people make more, some make less. Some work hard and still make less for the work they chose to do, and make less. I'm sure it will be a great camera at whatever price. I think the 6-8K for the body is the sweet spot personally.

    If it's more alot of people might consider something different. I'm not saying they should, I'm just saying some people can't justify that expense, it doesn't mean they're not pro, and can't produce "pro" work. People in life have different forms of flexibility and whats affordable. If it's a 10K-12K body, i'm sure its a great deal but it is well out of my price range once you add everything onto it. Some people are blessed with more, some with less. I work hard but can't afford an Epic, I know others who don't work as hard and probably could afford it. Each person has a different situation.
    Last edited by Jeffrey Loewe; 09-23-2011 at 10:30 AM.
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  7. #177  
    Senior Member Jeffrey Loewe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala View Post
    The price range we are talking about here for a professional user is easily affordable. Would I like a Scarlet for $3k? No, and not even for $5k. If it's available for $7k, it'd better not have anything even close to Epic specs. Just a reality. Stop whining about the price. If it's $10-12k it's awesome and it's a throw-away cam for mounting on cars and planes. And an awesome cam for low budget/no budget filmmakers. Canon 5D is awesome for the cash, but one has to deal with its shortcomings. So be it.

    Soccer moms and skateboard hobbyist shooters don't need a pro camera. No offense. If you are a pro, you'd better charge at least $500/day. Most charge way more. 10-15 days at a pro rate will pay for the camera. Period.
    Sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. I know plenty of action sports film makers that have produced better quality work on lesser cameras than some have on full on "Pro" Set Ups. I don't think you have to charge a certain amount to be considered "Pro" either. People choose different lines of work. We're all doing the same thing at the end of the day with different outlets. I chose the field I'm in for the love of it. I'd love to charge $500 a day, but that would allow others to slide into the projects I pick up. I hate the word "Pro". Everyone that picks up a camera has a different talent, mind, vision and skill set. Making it more available only strengthens themselves and others around them.

    I think its very unfair to price a camera to a higher amount to keep a particular crowd away. If you can make it an affordable price for more people that's great. I can see reasons for some not wanting soccer moms with Scarlets, but purposely pricing it to keep people away makes no sense. Allow for growth and progression.
    Last edited by Jeffrey Loewe; 09-23-2011 at 10:49 AM.
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  8. #178  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Nitsch View Post
    Totally agree with you. But I would also light to toss in Film Students, This is the perfect camera for film students, Yeah its a nice chunk of change but you have to look at it like an investment for the future. The Scarlet will do a great job in future-proofing students until they graduate and pick up a job. And even then I could see it lasting them much longer then that.
    Yes, Exactly. I was actually going to edit my post for film students.

    It's good for the students and good for Red... because if everyone is learning on Red... guess what they are going to want to use for the rest of their careers...

    If the Scarlet is priced out of reach... then they'll just end up learning on DSLRs and then just going to whatever Canon's higher motion camera offering is. It doesn't matter what is better or worse, this is just how it will happen due to availability, pricing, and level of comfort.
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  9. #179  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala View Post
    The price range we are talking about here for a professional user is easily affordable. Would I like a Scarlet for $3k? No, and not even for $5k. If it's available for $7k, it'd better not have anything even close to Epic specs. Just a reality. Stop whining about the price. If it's $10-12k it's awesome and it's a throw-away cam for mounting on cars and planes. And an awesome cam for low budget/no budget filmmakers. Canon 5D is awesome for the cash, but one has to deal with its shortcomings. So be it.

    Soccer moms and skateboard hobbyist shooters don't need a pro camera. No offense. If you are a pro, you'd better charge at least $500/day. Most charge way more. 10-15 days at a pro rate will pay for the camera. Period.
    No one here is Whining... we are simply stating the advantage of having a camera with slightly lower specs than previously announced with a price tag to match based on the trend that Red has set.

    Even if the Scarlet is only used as a B cam for big wig hollywood, why do they need 120 fps or more? Jim has said that FPS is directly related to cost. Of course it has its advantages and its a great feature, but is it really that necessary? I imagine even several studios would rather save a few grand off of the price of a camera if it meant they were limited to 60 fps. If a scarlet comes out for $15k but has been upgraded to 4k resolution etc etc... what's really going to be primary distinguishing characteristics between scarlet and an R1? Red doesn't want to keep making the R1, they want to go more modular, right? 5k and 4k are really close.

    No, I'm going to side with a cheaper scarlet. Forget the whole Pro/consumer thing. Look at the numbers... If Jim didn't want to make a sub $10k camera, I'd bet he'd scrap Scarlet.

    I'm hoping, anyway :)
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  10. #180  
    Senior Member Leo Sardello's Avatar
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    I do not want a cheaper Scarlet with reduced specs for the sake of it being cheaper. I want RED to make the best camera they can at the price point they feel they can do so. I will scrap up the extra cash or turn to rentals if that falls outside of my price range for purchase.
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