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  1. #101  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric J View Post
    I think you have a point that there is a market for some things to be made overseas, but people are spoiled and want things for low cost. It has gotten to the point that manufacturers are shipping from overseas for everything now. We in the US wonder where all the jobs went, and we all complain about why things cost so much. A dear friend from England laughs at me when I mention things like this. Things are so much more overseas, but Americans are spoiled, however we do pay more for the "perception" if it has a name behind it. There is a huge perception (and truth to some extent) that USA means quality as well, and we take pride in owning parts from the US, and we should. I don't want to make this a political debate, but sometimes for large companies like RED, or others, producing in the US could be actually lower cost and offer better quality. I'll explain. For anyone in the position of RED or any big name, if producing parts on a machining level, etc, a high end CNC mill with precision tolerances can be under $100,000 . If buying a Haas mill (made in the US) the parts could be made in the US on US machines. It doesn't get much better than this. The company can rent a facility, hire a few machinists, engineers, and do it all in house if they wanted. This is the epitome of Quality Control. Overall in the long run this would be a more valuable process for RED or any plant creating products. I'm sure it has some drawbacks, but has many advantages and when producing your own machine parts, outside of electronics (millions or billions of setup is necessary to make sensors, etc) there will always be less backorder, and parts could become available faster, cheaper, etc.

    It seems US companies shipping overseas want to take the quick and easy route instead of this strategy because they are worried about selling now vs overcoming the growing pains of US manufacturing. RED started a revolution in cinema, hopefully they can start the REVOLUTION in US MANUFACTURING AGAIN. I would buy RED for this reason alone. That doesn't mean I don't buy from overseas manufacturers. I buy what I like, regardless of where it was made (unless I found out it was north korea lol) but there is a definitive pride in Buying US, especially if the company manufacturing is in the US.
    I'm with you, Eric. Great post. I also buy from everywhere. I look always for quality and value. I own many Japanese cameras and love them- they never failed me. I own an American GLidecam, an american Kessler Pocket Dolly (Phillip bloom) also an excellent product, as well as a micro dolly (my most used support gear with my tripod)... On the other hand, I also own Macs, which are manufactured in CHina and designed in the USA, as well as a Lenovo Laptop, designed in China (If I'm not mistaken). My car is from Japan and I love it- and sincerely would never buy (until proven wrong) an American car because they look terrible, are environmentally irresponsible and are not great performers (excluding the Corvette and the Viper). I buy local food and local products as much as possible, as long as they obey the criteria I described above. If there was an innovative team and project over here doing something similar and with such passion i would support them, no doubt. There's nothing wrong to support your local products. having pride in your own local manufacture and production is commendable. But it should not be "The" sole reason for a buying decision. Innovation, quality assurance, service, attention to the costumer, etc. should be equally important and, above all, we are all global citizens, and country of origin should not be the key of the relationship between costumer and product.

    This is the advantage of our Global World. Even if a product is manufactured on the other side of the world, nothing prevents me to order online and have it in 3 days by my doorstep.
    Sérgio Perez

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  2. #102  
    Senior Member Stephen Williams's Avatar
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    The build quality of Epic M is amazing, very impressed.
    Epic Dragon owner, the first upgraded camera in Switzerland :D
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  3. #103  
    Quote Originally Posted by Sergio Perez View Post
    I'm with you, Eric. Great post. I also buy from everywhere. I look always for quality and value. I own many Japanese cameras and love them- they never failed me. I own an American GLidecam, an american Kellser Pocket Dolly (Phillip bloom) also an excellent product, as well as a microdolly. I also own Macs, which are manufactured in CHina and designed in the USA, as well as a Lenovo Laptop, designed in China (If I'm not mistaken). My car is from Japan and I love it- and sincerely would never buy (until proven wrong) an American car because they look terrible, are environmentally irresponsible and are not great performers (excluding the Corvette and the Viper). I buy local food and local products as much as possible, as long as they obey the criteria I described above.

    This is the advantage of our Global World. Even if a product is manufactured on the other side of the world, nothing prevents me to order online and have it in 3 days by my doorstep.
    Couldn't agree more Sergio. I don't hesitate to buy overseas, but would love to see RED completely making all there products in the US, mostly for quality control issues, and to help with whatever US advantages it has. A Global Economy is key, it is what drives price down overall; we as Americans just need to look at the products we buy, regardless of where they are from and know the quality and manufacturing process behind them for high end products. I think it is common knowledge amongst US buyers that US manufacturers mostly have their parts made overseas because of cost savings, and larger profits. I think the average purchaser, especially on quality or higher end products would pay more if manufactured in the USA was part of it. It shouldn't be the only reason a buyer purchases US products, but it has advantages on both sides.


    Eric J
    Creative Director/Artist Group Agency
    Designer/CEO/cineZEN USA
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  4. #104  
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    This is one thing that has always impressed me about Red: the best cinema cameras in the world are being designed and manufactured right here in America. Thank you Jim and the Red Team for showing us that we can still do it here.
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  5. #105  
    Senior Member Stephen Gentle's Avatar
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    I'm very impressed by those stats, Jim. I love the idea of manufacturing in-house and it sounds like it's working out very well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Denizhan Nacar View Post
    And it all started in a small garage with 300 bucks ....ONLY IN AMERICA....
    Do you seriously believe that that sort of thing doesn't happen elsewhere? I don't mind a bit of pride of one's home country, but blind nationalism annoys me...
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  6. #106  
    Quote Originally Posted by Jannard View Post
    Many companies say that their products "are designed in the USA." That is a hand job. Designing in the USA does create a few jobs, but that isn't enough. Most then send the designs to China for manufacturing.

    Truly "Made in the USA" is what matters. That used to mean something. It does again today. At least we think so...

    We are anxious and excited to create jobs here. We think we can compete by designing, engineering and manufacturing in the USA. That means performance and pricing.

    90+% of EPIC is USA made. Even the boards are made in Silicone Valley. All assembly is being done at our factory in Irvine, CA. While we have nothing against China, almost nothing about EPIC has any parts made there. Only a handful of parts are made in Japan.

    The future of our economy depends on Americans being productive. That means actually making things...

    The very 1st EPIC-M (which went to Spiderman) took 8 people 12 hours to assemble. The 1st run had a 10% rate for "no re-work". That means that 90% had some sort of necessary re-work before it could be sent out.

    Today... an EPIC-X gets assembled by an 8 person team in 13 minutes with a 96% "no re-work" percentage. And we are just getting started.

    These are exciting times in a number of ways. The single best camera in the cinema industry was conceived of, designed, engineered, developed, and manufactured in the USA. Not Japan. Not Germany. Who would have thunk it?

    Jim

    I truly applaud the RED team and Jim personally on his business ethics and business sense. I am just a small fry director and DP - but I have employees, a business, and make a living off of the fusion of RED's products and our collective talents and skills. His business has enabled us to grow, become useful to larger scale companies, and take our cottage industry into areas we simply couldn't compete in a few years ago. Our work takes us around the world for feature films and commercial clients - something that I had hoped for for 8 years before getting there with this product.

    I can't thank you enough Jim for making this magnificent camera - and I look forward to my EpicX - with AMERICAN PRIDE. As a US veteran, I get a weird sort of enthusiasm when I think of American businesses that over compete by chucking an industry rule book out the window. It is a fact of Jim's brilliance as a businessman that he has the temerity and wisdom to push to have his manufacturing reinforce his own micro economy. By doing so, he shows that you CAN make the best damn product in the world right here in America. By showing the way for other companies looking to manufacture "highest tech" products at a commodity rate - premium products that require sophistication in design, speed and elegance in construction - he shows that it can be done. What does that accomplish? Jim is a billionaire - and I suspect much of his value has something to do with the US dollar. If he bolsters a local economy, establishes confidence in the ability of US workers to design and manufacture top quality products, and successfully deliver these products, then the companies that may follow this example will contribute to this economy as well - reinforcing the value of his very own assets as the export and sale of ever increasing sophisticated goods starts to role out of the CA valley and end up over seas. Red alone will not make the economy better - that would be a naive notion. BUT RED and JIM's example can serve as a template for industrial competitiveness around the company - they can lead the way for industrially competitive companies to kickstart an economy.

    I can't help but think that if Jim had decided he wanted to build a car instead, it would be a flying beauty with a holographic entertainment system, a sleek line, and stealth capabilities. I'm sure some would complain that it flies, but those of us with a Jim Car would be flying around with smiles on our faces and getting there quicker than the folks in a BMW or Mercedes terrestrial auto.

    Thank you JIM and RED's outstanding team of professionals and enthusiasts for all you do. This bud's for you.
    2 X EPIC-X, SMOKE, AVID MC, Davinci Resolve, NUKE RED RAZOR FILMS -- NYC & LA

    Cinematography, Color, Direction -- commercial & narrative
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  7. #107  
    Of all the amazing accomplishments of RED. The Made in the USA is by far the most amazing and inspiring. It makes me extremely proud to be a RED customer. It proves that technology can be an American product.

    I hope that others will follow suit.
    Benjamin Epps
    Elkstar Productions
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  8. #108  
    Compare and contrast Solyndra to Red. Both are leveraging the photo-electric affect to generate electrons by light interacting with (mostly) silicon. But the difference is the value added to those photons and electrons by skilled people. Creating REAL jobs making the highest value product imaginable: Image experiences that can touch the soul.

    On the more mundane front, let's examine the business implications of Mr. Jannard's numbers, 8 people x 13 minutes. Let's assume this was done for measurement and impossible to maintain for 8 hours a day. Conservatively, let us assume that the integration, assembly, and test (IA&T) touch labor "theoretical first unit cost" or T1 is 2 man hours, and that the fully burdened rate for these highly skilled prototype builders is $200/hour. That is $400 for a ~$20,000 (speculation on cost, not price) device, which is only 2%. That is a remarkable 1/7 of a standard IA&T factor. Amazing, heroic. To make the math easier, let's assume they can get 1,600 hours /year out of each of these 8 people (actually doing this) which would be 12,800 hours, meaning a team like this could crank out 6,400 cameras at the current pace. Let's assume they crank out 6,400 of these over the next year, and they achieve a typical touch labor cumulative average learning rate of 85% (N^(ln(.85)/ln(2)). This would take this down to ~half a man hour per camera, which means that it might be possible for this team to assemble 25,000 cameras per year. If the $200/hour staff were moved on to higher-value added activities and replaced with $100/hour labor, they could achieve an astounding $50 of IA&T costs per camera. I am now hopeful that Mr. Jannard will indeed recover the hundreds of millions of dollars in software, firmware, and other development cost he has poured, along with his passion, into his cameras and Red motion images will be the majority we see every day.
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  9. #109  
    Senior Member Joel Arvidsson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elsie N View Post
    Wow! this should chew through the Epic Stages quick enough... Will be interesting to see what comes next.
    Exactly and by looking at the RED Roadmap the Scarlet should be the next in the pipe!

    RED Roadmap... – 09-08-2011, 09:24 AM
    EPIC-M- shipping

    EPIC-X- shipping

    Scarlet...
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  10. #110  
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    Boo ya!



    m525
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