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  1. #221  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kristin Stewart View Post
    The whole thread is political, Denizhan. Being proud of building products in America is political, and I have nothing against it ;-)
    I respectfully disagree because I can understand why one would make that assumption. Just like there is data that shows that a dollar spent turns over in the economy x number of times, I think the same applies with jobs. A wage earner causes other jobs to be created because those local wages are spent. Some of that money stays local but some of it goes for a product that is made or information that is supplied from somewhere else.

    A job created anywhere is a benefit to everyone, but most especially to the place it is created. And because families rely on jobs, the family unit benefits in self-esteem. A job is the least common denominator of civility.

    And I think that is the true purpose of this thread and the underlying meaning of the discussion.
    Last edited by Elsie N; 09-17-2011 at 07:02 AM.
    One camera is a shoot... two or more is a production...
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  2. #222  
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    I think Jim is a genius at marketing (and many other things besides).


    Sometimes I feel that we are part of one of the most awesome “focus” groups in the world.

    Often Jim seems very clever but sincere about throwing up or out there very abstract notions or ideas.
    The classic one was “what does professional mean”?

    [Obviously REAL jobs are much more than an abstract idea and Jim is making a difference of course (understatement).]


    These are not “busy-work” types of threads or a decoy thread to keep the restless ‘natives” happy. It seems he really wants to know these things.

    I have to say, Reduser IS a TOUGH crowd to please. You have many independent film makers that hang out here that always seek the alternative view; in essence that is their job!

    The old thing, you can’t please all of the people all of the time, but at the same time you have to stand for something; you can’t attempt to accommodate everybody and everything otherwise everything gets averaged out to a wishy washy end.

    I have to admit politics aside, we look at what it means in terms of “brand” USA.

    When I think of made in USA (with the flag next to it)… I think of Dodge RAM commercials with the twangy guitars and a tattoo of a hemi on your girl friend’s butt (kind of thing) [nothing wrong with that]. I know that’s not fair and I’ll probably get flamed to death for that.. (I drive an F150 (extra long bed) BTW).

    So OK, APPLe was very clever in that they said made or designed in “California”…but now California is NOT what it used to be either… [I try to encourage people to come to New Mexico (it’s a little more like what California used to be]. Obviously there’s amazing and terrific capability in California, but in terms of the troubles, state management, infra structure and basic mindset it has definitely changed in the past 25 years plus. Apple says “California” basically to underscore a particular mindset and lifestyle association as well as to say, created by “freakishly” smart Americans.

    You have to put MADE IN “whatever” on the item mainly for export (legal/code) reasons. Nowadays you can laser mark, stamp or machine any characters you want onto an item.

    I would like to see something like MADE IN USA .i.e. with the smiley face emoticon next to it, as this symbolizes, we are smart, want to be friendly, we are of the modern age and we wish to serve the needs of (our customers) world wide, (now that we are in an age where we can (for the most part) communicate freely across borders in an unprecedented way.)


    I believe Brand USA is what we make it in the next 10 to 15 years.

    …but frankly right now I think it has a bit of an image problem that needs to be set right or on a more even keel.


    Cheers,

    Eric (there seem to be a lot Eric's about...)
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  3. #223  
    I am extremely happy to hear this. As an entrepreneur, one of my goals has always been creating quality jobs, and I prefer to keep my money as local as I can. It's heartening to see you have the courage and vision to do what would terrify so many others. My hat off to you sir.
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  4. #224  
    Quote Originally Posted by David P Johnson View Post
    Posts like these ARE dangerous, because they are uninformed emotions dressed as something rational or quantitative. The analysis is nonsense.

    The arch of civilization, from barter economy thru to modern capitalism is one of SPECIALIZATION brought thru efficiency. Human civilization is founded upon pooling of intellectual capital, matched to labor and capital.
    You couldn't have better misrepresented my post if you had deliberately tried.

    The challenge in our evolving global economy is one of employment. Efficiency creates opportunities to a point but the question is who benefits from those gains in efficiency. Unskilled labor will be replaced by automation and robotics, and it's inevitable. Your Gap, McDonalds and assembly line work is going to vanish. If you have $10m you can put that into robotic slave labor or people. Those robots will be made by other robots which will be created from robotically mined ore. Prices plummet. But there'll be less need for human input except in R&D. This is a *good thing*. It frees us for creative and human friendly enterprises that make us happy like music and film but we're previously unaffordable. The dystopian outcome though is that capital consolidates in a few and we slip into a two caste system. I don't think that'll happen but I do think we should start the seeds of that future today by rethinking how we reward innovation and intellectual property in a post scarcity economy where most of our goods are digital.
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  5. #225  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gavin Greenwalt View Post
    You couldn't have better misrepresented my post if you had deliberately tried.

    The challenge in our evolving global economy is one of employment. Efficiency creates opportunities to a point but the question is who benefits from those gains in efficiency. Unskilled labor will be replaced by automation and robotics, and it's inevitable. Your Gap, McDonalds and assembly line work is going to vanish. If you have $10m you can put that into robotic slave labor or people. Those robots will be made by other robots which will be created from robotically mined ore. Prices plummet. But there'll be less need for human input except in R&D. This is a *good thing*. It frees us for creative and human friendly enterprises that make us happy like music and film but we're previously unaffordable. The dystopian outcome though is that capital consolidates in a few and we slip into a two caste system. I don't think that'll happen but I do think we should start the seeds of that future today by rethinking how we reward innovation and intellectual property in a post scarcity economy where most of our goods are digital.
    Gavin I think a lot of your posts on the whole are very funny; interesting that you would get into a tangle with Jim over a “productivity metric”.

    You have to see this link, absolutely laugh your arses off, but at the same time provoke much thought.

    Contemporary reports of computers and its impact on American Society in the 1960s.

    This is mind blowing... considering the topic.

    Enjoy!!!!

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSZOQduIW6s
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  #226  
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    Robots aren't the question... who is running them and where is. Life moves forward at a breakneck pace. Where things are made matters. Every company also needs accounting, legal, support, etc. Businesses put people to work in a number of ways. If everything is made outside the country, it won't be long before brands are built where stuff is made. You can already see brands springing up in China.

    Japan began building stuff for American companies (brands)... then quickly started building brands themselves before taking over the world of business as it related to electronics. Companies that manufacture in Asia are inadvertently helping them get started.

    We are empowering China to build the future. It doesn't have to be so. If companies don't get back to inventing, engineering and producing in the US, we are likely to become solely a service and distribution country... which is OK if that is all we aspire to be. But it certainly would disappoint me.

    Americans have a history of being brave, ingenious and entrepreneurial. We traditionally set big goals (remember the lunar program?). I hope that spirit stays alive.

    Jim
    "The camera is arguably one of the most important of all inventions… it is the single tool that has the ability to stop time, record history, generate art, tell stories, and communicate messages that transcend language like nothing else ever conceived."

    "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude.
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  7. #227  
    Senior Member Carter Cammack's Avatar
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    I'm sorry if I started all this soapboxing. My intent was to say that with the fall of the US Dollar against foreign currency, building everything overseas is not the deal it used to be five or ten years back. And we could really use some manufacturing work here in the U.S.
    Thanks for putting up with us and our rants, Mr. J.
    All those years of Special-Ed are finally paying off.
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  8. #228  
    Senior Member Denizhan Nacar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannard View Post
    Robots aren't the question... who is running them and where is. Life moves forward at a breakneck pace. Where things are made matters. Every company also needs accounting, legal, support, etc. Businesses put people to work in a number of ways. If everything is made outside the country, it won't be long before brands are built where stuff is made. You can already see brands springing up in China.

    Japan began building stuff for American companies (brands)... then quickly started building brands themselves before taking over the world of business as it related to electronics. Companies that manufacture in Asia are inadvertently helping them get started.

    We are empowering China to build the future. It doesn't have to be so. If companies don't get back to inventing, engineering and producing in the US, we are likely to become solely a service and distribution country... which is OK if that is all we aspire to be. But it certainly would disappoint me.

    Americans have a history of being brave, ingenious and entrepreneurial. We traditionally set big goals (remember the lunar program?). I hope that spirit stays alive.

    Jim
    W.Edwards Deming well known American professor helped Japanese about modern manufacturing and quality...


    http://deming.org/

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W._Edwards_Deming
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  9. #229  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannard View Post
    Robots aren't the question... who is running them and where is. Life moves forward at a breakneck pace. Where things are made matters. Every company also needs accounting, legal, support, etc. Businesses put people to work in a number of ways. If everything is made outside the country, it won't be long before brands are built where stuff is made. You can already see brands springing up in China.

    Japan began building stuff for American companies (brands)... then quickly started building brands themselves before taking over the world of business as it related to electronics. Companies that manufacture in Asia are inadvertently helping them get started.

    We are empowering China to build the future. It doesn't have to be so. If companies don't get back to inventing, engineering and producing in the US, we are likely to become solely a service and distribution country... which is OK if that is all we aspire to be. But it certainly would disappoint me.

    Americans have a history of being brave, ingenious and entrepreneurial. We traditionally set big goals (remember the lunar program?). I hope that spirit stays alive.

    Jim
    This type of attitude and envision of AMERICA was what let me to leave behind every one I knew and loved, when I adventure to the USA in 1989, arriving at Manhattan, NY, with
    only $100 exact, in my pocket after paying the taxi that left me in front of an Italian Pizzeria to get some dinner.

    I felt that in AMERICA ANYTHING WAS POSSIBLE, just needed a DREAM, and I sure did had one...

    Wish AMERICA wil continue to be a place of Inspiration for Dreamers as my self, and be a place were those dreams can still be realized, I again applaud your efforts!!
    KETCH ROSSi • F i l m m a k e r
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  10. #230  
    Senior Member Felix K.'s Avatar
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    I don't really understand how we are discussing if bringing business to the US is a good idea. What's the alternative?
    Automation kills jobs, we know that for decades know. That is a totally different matter. Let's get back to the fact that RED has decided to make its brand pure "made in USA". And they are proud. I can understand that! Unfortunately that is an exception in the business-world today.

    An example: BMW is required to start a pure Chinese car brand because of Chinese regulations, thus sharing their knowledge. Is that clever in the long run? I think not!
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