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  1. #101  
    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Toia View Post
    Your the king of hype, (take that as an awesome compliment.). But the RED hype 4-5 years ago actually turned into the real deal.
    Hype that sells product long term. Hype that makes people stop, hold there money and wait for you... Hype that creates an builds a brand quicker than expected..., Hype other people subconsciously help sell for you.. Hype you don't have to pay for... it's free.
    Yes, hype was necessary when all RED had was hype. But now it has shipping products that speak louder than words.

    Also, you don't think it hurt anyone that Scarlet was announced in November, 2008 as a $3,000 camera to ship in 2009? Do you think that those who based buying decisions on that were happy about it?

    Comparing future products to already shipping products is never a good idea. Besides, if RED's upcoming products kill sales of competitors, then what stops them from killing sales of existing RED products?

    Again, this was all great and fine when RED didn't yet have products. Today, when Epic finally ships, I'm not sure if the best message to send around would be, "If you like what we're selling today, you'll be blown away by what we'll be selling in two years..."

    It's not that everyone will be in the dark about what RED is up to. Epic and Scarlet brains are (or will very soon be) shipping. If you buy into either technology now, you'll be able to upgrade later. You'll be able to swap a brain. And you can be pretty sure that the next Epic brain will be going up, not down, in specs. And if you want any more details than that: I don't think you were getting that before either. Details, schedules and specs changed so wildly that few sensible people were making any buying decisions on those announcements.

    And it's not that Jim announced that from now on, RED will turn into a bunch of idiots (such a feat would be theoretically impossible anyway). If the company thinks that the market needs to hear a message, that message will be delivered and heard.
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  2. #102  
    Senior Member Sanjin Jukic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannard View Post
    Up 'til now, we have said what we are "going to do".

    As of now, that has changed (we promised that everything is subject to change... including our strategy).

    We will only announce new things when they are done and ready to ship. That includes Scarlet and all other new products and accessories.

    We used to go by "always late but worth the wait". That will no longer be the case because we won't telegraph what we are planning anymore. There will be no possibility of us being late. No more "we expect this to be done by..."

    From now on it will only be "Here is is and we are ready to ship".

    Jim
    Excellent news!!!

    Actually I was waiting for something like this pretty long.

    Also in a near future when RED will ship sensor upgrades for Epic, then new cameras with RED Dragon sensor, new ProRes module and new HDRx variant 2

    it will be really a day when RED new cameras finally distance themselves from all the competition.
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    Dynamic range is, after all, the measurement between well saturation (photosite blowout) and noise floor.
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  #103  
    Straight Shooter Jon Sagud's Avatar
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    I am enjoying my down time and beginning to realize the benefits in having time now to do the things that bring me the most pleasure, and spending more time on reduser has been one of those added bonuses. I am an outsider now with the unique advantage of an insider's view. Here is my take on Jim's announcement:

    RED's not trying to be anyone else, not Apple, not Arri, not anybody. RED is RED. This is a company evolving and adopting a philosophy that is sound business, nothing more. The transparency in the beginning was industry shaking; the whole forum concept, revolutionary for any company in our industry. It has been copied and attempts have been made to emulate the model, but no one does it as well as Jim. It is undeniable that it was brilliant marketing, creating excitement for product that didn't even exist; it created a brand and a buzz that any company in the world would die for. All without a penny spent on advertising or promotion. There was the practical side to it; create an exchange of ideas between manufacturer and customer that could only make the product better, reflecting the needs of the user. The ultimate products made by users for users. But there was more to it than just that. It was personal. It was the telegraphed excitement from a man that was a user, just like all of you, that stood on the precipice of knowing what was in the works, technology and product that would change the world. Jim is like a kid in that way, so excited to share what he knew that he couldn't help himself from giving the world a peak into his crystal ball. Jim, often times, was the hardest one to keep a secret. He wants to share his excitement with you, his passion for the ultimate camera trumped by no one.

    I think that it's a mistake for anyone to view this announcement in the context of a change in that transparency. There will be no fewer RECON posts. Every notion, every thought that Jim has, will continue to be expressed. Feedback is the cornerstone of RED's model and will always be encouraged and nurtured. Don't expect any fewer exchanges on what RED is thinking about or tossing around; it's your dialog that fosters the greatness in this company. The exchange has been, and will always be, critical to the product that is developed and brought to market. I heartily expect the discussion to be more, not less. And if I know Jim, it's going to be the hardest thing in the world for him not to leak a tease here and there :)

    What will be different is that the expectation of new product, which puts RED in the constant state of defense, will be minimized. No one likes to disappoint. The complexities of bringing revolutionary technology to the world at affordable prices is a formidable task. No success can be achieved without failure. Contrary to popular belief, Jim and Jarred are not aliens. They are flesh and blood humans, and they, along with the RED Team, work day and night to make this miracle that is RED happen. Taking the pressure off of this great company to pull rabbits out of a hat will make the company stronger. Product will be ready when its ready. No disappointments.

    For anyone concerned that not knowing the roadmap will force them elsewhere, I say this: There is good product everywhere and there are a variety of tools out there for many applications, but there is no other company that you can hang your hat on that will have your back and stay as true to you, the customer, as RED. Buying RED is buying into a family, it is buying into protection from having to buy a new camera for every generation of advance. And most importantly, it is buying into a legacy, cameras designed by persons passionate about the art of cinematography and photography. Those persons reside at the studio in Hollywood, the manufacturing site in Irvine and on the pages of this forum.
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  4. #104  
    Senior Member Mark Phelan's Avatar
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    Well the benefit of being a benevolent dictator is the ability to listen to counsel, then decide how to act on his own. Jim DOES listen and understands very well. But the din on this forum can sometimes (usually?) be mindless chatter from around the globe. That's got to be annoying at times, especially when each of us are telling him how to run his company. RED is the most transparent company I've ever been associated with and I don't think they'll throw the baby out with the bathwater by keeping things closer to the vest. They've already had what appears to be corporate espionage (or what appears to me) on a couple of occasions that I recall. I would have clamped down long ago if it were my company. They're trying to please the masses, but they'll never please all, and shouldn't try to, i.e. RED declaring to be a professional camera company.

    NAB and similar conventions are goofy in the sense they take every competitor and throw them in the same building so they can photograph and make copious notes about what the other guy is showing. Why not just leave the front door unlocked of an evening when you turn out the lights? Frankly, I'm glad they are becoming more closed mouth about new developments. They're no longer telegraphing on the battlefield what will be their next move. Who on earth does that? Idiots, that's who.
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  5. #105  
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    No need for details or dates...but is Epic-S still in the works? Yes? No?
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  6. #106  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Sagud View Post
    I am enjoying my down time and beginning to realize the benefits in having time now to do the things that bring me the most pleasure, and spending more time on reduser has been one of those added bonuses. I am an outsider now with the unique advantage of an insider's view. Here is my take on Jim's announcement:

    RED's not trying to be anyone else, not Apple, not Arri, not anybody. RED is RED. This is a company evolving and adopting a philosophy that is sound business, nothing more. The transparency in the beginning was industry shaking; the whole forum concept, revolutionary for any company in our industry. It has been copied and attempts have been made to emulate the model, but no one does it as well as Jim. It is undeniable that it was brilliant marketing, creating excitement for product that didn't even exist; it created a brand and a buzz that any company in the world would die for. All without a penny spent on advertising or promotion. There was the practical side to it; create an exchange of ideas between manufacturer and customer that could only make the product better, reflecting the needs of the user. The ultimate products made by users for users. But there was more to it than just that. It was personal. It was the telegraphed excitement from a man that was a user, just like all of you, that stood on the precipice of knowing what was in the works, technology and product that would change the world. Jim is like a kid in that way, so excited to share what he knew that he couldn't help himself from giving the world a peak into his crystal ball. Jim, often times, was the hardest one to keep a secret. He wants to share his excitement with you, his passion for the ultimate camera trumped by no one.

    I think that it's a mistake for anyone to view this announcement in the context of a change in that transparency. There will be no fewer RECON posts. Every notion, every thought that Jim has, will continue to be expressed. Feedback is the cornerstone of RED's model and will always be encouraged and nurtured. Don't expect any fewer exchanges on what RED is thinking about or tossing around; it's your dialog that fosters the greatness in this company. The exchange has been, and will always be, critical to the product that is developed and brought to market. I heartily expect the discussion to be more, not less. And if I know Jim, it's going to be the hardest thing in the world for him not to leak a tease here and there :)

    What will be different is that the expectation of new product, which puts RED in the constant state of defense, will be minimized. No one likes to disappoint. The complexities of bringing revolutionary technology to the world at affordable prices is a formidable task. No success can be achieved without failure. Contrary to popular belief, Jim and Jarred are not aliens. They are flesh and blood humans, and they, along with the RED Team, work day and night to make this miracle that is RED happen. Taking the pressure off of this great company to pull rabbits out of a hat will make the company stronger. Product will be ready when its ready. No disappointments.

    For anyone concerned that not knowing the roadmap will force them elsewhere, I say this: There is good product everywhere and there are a variety of tools out there for many applications, but there is no other company that you can hang your hat on that will have your back and stay as true to you, the customer, as RED. Buying RED is buying into a family, it is buying into protection from having to buy a new camera for every generation of advance. And most importantly, it is buying into a legacy, cameras designed by persons passionate about the art of cinematography and photography. Those persons reside at the studio in Hollywood, the manufacturing site in Irvine and on the pages of this forum.
    Awesome. Well said.
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  7. #107 Philosophy 
    Senior Member Harcharan Singh's Avatar
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    Just say I did buy a 5k Alexa (only because we don't know about REDs next move) Say I have already spent all my money and cannot afford to dump all those newly acquired tools to go buy a new 8K EPIC... So your silence becomes non beneficial for long term planners such as myself and 100 other people I know... We don't know its coming, we don't budget or plan or get excited for it...
    A+++++ . Your new philosophy may be an advantage for the competitor....Even if they know about your future plans I dont think they can derail those...What has been Alexa able to do to the RED or EPIC market.....

    We should be able to know by some means what your future products are ...maybe at least 6 months before they release.....
    We love RED as it is......no 'apple's for us.
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  8. #108  
    Senior Member Mark Toia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Sagud View Post
    I am enjoying my down time and beginning to realize the benefits in having time now to do the things that bring me the most pleasure, and spending more time on reduser has been one of those added bonuses. I am an outsider now with the unique advantage of an insider's view. Here is my take on Jim's announcement:

    RED's not trying to be anyone else, not Apple, not Arri, not anybody. RED is RED. This is a company evolving and adopting a philosophy that is sound business, nothing more. The transparency in the beginning was industry shaking; the whole forum concept, revolutionary for any company in our industry. It has been copied and attempts have been made to emulate the model, but no one does it as well as Jim. It is undeniable that it was brilliant marketing, creating excitement for product that didn't even exist; it created a brand and a buzz that any company in the world would die for. All without a penny spent on advertising or promotion. There was the practical side to it; create an exchange of ideas between manufacturer and customer that could only make the product better, reflecting the needs of the user. The ultimate products made by users for users. But there was more to it than just that. It was personal. It was the telegraphed excitement from a man that was a user, just like all of you, that stood on the precipice of knowing what was in the works, technology and product that would change the world. Jim is like a kid in that way, so excited to share what he knew that he couldn't help himself from giving the world a peak into his crystal ball. Jim, often times, was the hardest one to keep a secret. He wants to share his excitement with you, his passion for the ultimate camera trumped by no one.

    I think that it's a mistake for anyone to view this announcement in the context of a change in that transparency. There will be no fewer RECON posts. Every notion, every thought that Jim has, will continue to be expressed. Feedback is the cornerstone of RED's model and will always be encouraged and nurtured. Don't expect any fewer exchanges on what RED is thinking about or tossing around; it's your dialog that fosters the greatness in this company. The exchange has been, and will always be, critical to the product that is developed and brought to market. I heartily expect the discussion to be more, not less. And if I know Jim, it's going to be the hardest thing in the world for him not to leak a tease here and there :)

    What will be different is that the expectation of new product, which puts RED in the constant state of defense, will be minimized. No one likes to disappoint. The complexities of bringing revolutionary technology to the world at affordable prices is a formidable task. No success can be achieved without failure. Contrary to popular belief, Jim and Jarred are not aliens. They are flesh and blood humans, and they, along with the RED Team, work day and night to make this miracle that is RED happen. Taking the pressure off of this great company to pull rabbits out of a hat will make the company stronger. Product will be ready when its ready. No disappointments.

    For anyone concerned that not knowing the roadmap will force them elsewhere, I say this: There is good product everywhere and there are a variety of tools out there for many applications, but there is no other company that you can hang your hat on that will have your back and stay as true to you, the customer, as RED. Buying RED is buying into a family, it is buying into protection from having to buy a new camera for every generation of advance. And most importantly, it is buying into a legacy, cameras designed by persons passionate about the art of cinematography and photography. Those persons reside at the studio in Hollywood, the manufacturing site in Irvine and on the pages of this forum.
    Thanks Jon.. :)
    Mark Toia
    Director / DP / Founder of Zoom Film & Television

    RED EPIC M #456, RED EPIC X #612, RED EPIC X #1137, RED EPIC DRAGON #(coming Soon)

    www.toia.com

    www.zoomfilmtv.com.au
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  #109  
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    1st off... I'll still be here.

    With so much coming fairly soon, you'll get a constant stream of "pay attention tonight" posts. Instead of hearing what we are going to do, you'll be getting a constant stream of what is ready now. I will still give general roadmap hints, but they will not be as detailed as before.

    If we see that our customers will need to make a decision on some emerging product, we'll help. But there is a delicate dance here. If we give you (and our competitors) all the info too soon, we are likely to be late and have helped the industry keep up with us. I'm not going to do that anymore. If we give too little info, the speculation kills us because some post that they expect us to take them to the moon and back for $20.

    The solution is to surprise you early with a constant stream of great things that are ready to go.

    Jim
    "The camera is arguably one of the most important of all inventions… it is the single tool that has the ability to stop time, record history, generate art, tell stories, and communicate messages that transcend language like nothing else ever conceived."

    "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude.
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  10. #110  
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    Jim, Thanks for the clarity. I'm planning to get the Scarlet fixed, but for my friends that are planning to get the Epic-S, is that still happening? It's just that it wasn't on your road map earlier.

    Thanks.
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