Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: Epic STREAK FLARING

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  1. #21  
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    What I see are lens flares, and they are a result of the larger Epic sensor.

    If you look at your lens while taking ... a lot of sources can be seen reflected in the glass without flaring.

    The Epic's larger sensor is making more of these sources that are hitting the lens create flares.

    To say that differently, a greater range of light sources hitting the lens from a greater range of angles will cause flaring in Epic. In particular this will affect light sources just off frame much more.

    There is nothing for it but to flag the lens a bit more aggressively than you are used to with S35 and R1 cameras.

    Just a note, I'm ignoring the sun in the vimeo clip and just considering the flare from the water in that clip, plus the flares in the circus clip.

    Now ... if I was 100% correct, then cropping the sensor would make the Epic behave more like Red One MX. I read here that cropping the sensor has not impacted these flares.

    If that is correct, that means there are at least two factors at play here ... and I have no experience with the second one.

    One hypothesis I have is that its an internal reflection. One thing that surprised me about the Epic M was how much shiny there was around the lens mount compared to R1. I frankly discount this, because I think if this were an issue it would affect more footage more often.
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  2. #22  
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    Guys I have been shooting for 20 years, I know how to use a matt box! There is a definate problem with the sensor bouncing light around something. David Wakely who is one of the founders of the Australian Cinematographers society first noticed this on my camera when he rented it.

    I had my Red ONE MX right beside my EPIC last night and it didn't do it.

    I had bottom, top, left and right flags on and it didn't make a difference. You cannot move flags mid shot.

    The lens mount is definately different on the epic and seems shinier, so i masked the sensor with camera tape and that made no difference. I am sure light is bouncing between the sensor and the OLPF.

    I would really appreciate if someone at RED like DEANAN could look into this please
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  3. #23  
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    Then I guess a direct mail before posting here is more likely to gain his attention...
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  4. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericyoung View Post
    Adam, did you have a bottom flag on the mattebox - as the flare is coming from bottom of frame?
    If you look at the whole shot the flares come from the top and bottom. The opening first few frames are very noticeable
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  #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Eden View Post
    Guys I have been shooting for 20 years, I know how to use a matt box! There is a definate problem with the sensor bouncing light around something. David Wakely who is one of the founders of the Australian Cinematographers society first noticed this on my camera when he rented it.

    I had my Red ONE MX right beside my EPIC last night and it didn't do it.

    I had bottom, top, left and right flags on and it didn't make a difference. You cannot move flags mid shot.

    The lens mount is definately different on the epic and seems shinier, so i masked the sensor with camera tape and that made no difference. I am sure light is bouncing between the sensor and the OLPF.

    I would really appreciate if someone at RED like DEANAN could look into this please
    Sure, I can look into it.
     

  6. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Battistella View Post
    Even on the R1 you could get light bouncing off the OLFP back onto the back of the lens and then back into the sensor. What happens if you used a net on the back of the lens? I wonder if that flare would still be there. It's the same principle as light bouncing off a filter in the mattebox back into the front of the lens.

    The flange distance is the same in the EPIC and the R1 so the internal PL area has to be the same "volume", so that is kinda rulled out.

    Maybe it's the difference in mounts.


    Just tossing stuff out there.

    David
    I recently shot a TV commercial with my EPIC and a net stuck in front of the sensor, I was shooting steadicam and the flares were still there.. I managed to move the lights around and put on all of my side / top and bottom flags for my matt box and avoid the flaring.. But at the circus with small lights everywhere, I could not avoid them.
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  7. #27  
    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Eden View Post

    I would really appreciate if someone at RED like DEANAN could look into this please


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  8. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanan View Post
    Sure, I can look into it.
    Thank you Deanan. I remember that someone was saying the OLPF filter is removable so I was wondering would this make a difference? I am reluctant to do this myself for fear of scratching the sensor, but if that is the problem, then i could go somewhere like LEMAC for them to perform the operation once in a while.
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  9. #29  
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    I am having these same vertical streak flares... was wondering if it was just me, until I saw this thread. NEVER had them on the MX before. I have been using ultra primes recently. I'll try my RPP's out here soon to see if I see the same.
     

  10. #30  
    Senior Member Dominic Jones's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adam Eden View Post
    I had bottom, top, left and right flags on and it didn't make a difference.
    From what you're saying it's definitely a 'sensor based' flare, as opposed to a lens flare (in all fairness, just from how it looks and moves it clearly isn't a lens flare) - I still stand by my original guess that it's a gate flare or some other case of light flying around inside the mount/sensor enclosure, but it could also be related to the OLPF, perhaps. I've not had the pleasure of shooting on an Epic yet (first shoot will be early next month) - is there anything shiny on the edge of the sensor mount or within the enclosure? Could it be light refracting off of the edges of the OLPF glass if they're not blacked down? Has anyone ever seen them horizontally? That would help define the issue, I would guess...

    Interesting, interesting!...

    Cheers,
    Dom.
     

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