Ask Mike Most Anything

[Marc Wielage]

We're a tiny studio so all we've got is a consumer grade Sony HD LCD TV, albeit a really nice one, two TN LCD panels, and a mid-end JVC or Panasonic NTSC monitor on which to grade.

Whoa! Stop what you're doing. Eyeballing it does not work. Hire a local ISF guy to come in and set up the monitor correctly for Rec709 color space:

http://www.imagingscience.com/

They may not be able to get it dead on, because it's a consumer device, but they can probably get you closer than where you are now. The THX people also have certified people who will set up monitors, but I don't have their contact info handy.

You should take Mike's advice: this could be a road to disaster. At the least, you could wind up in a situation where every other shot looks vastly different in the theater than what you're seeing on the LCD display. At the worst, the results could actually harm the film in terms of getting it approved for delivery.

I would not automatically assume that XYZ digital cinema color space will translate perfectly to Rec709 home video. You should also be aware of what your home video distributor needs for the final deliverables.

BTW, note that this is also true for audio. I've seen quite a few films wind up sounding awful in theaters after being mixed in small rooms.

[Scott Crawley]

Thanks, unfortunately I'm only getting paid about $8/hr and can't afford to buy tools the studio refuses to purchase or put in any additional hours beyond the 12-16 hour days I already agreed to. I'll see if I can convince them to buy what you suggested for our next project, though. It's very frustrating trying to do a good job without the proper resources. Thankfully the grade looks fantastic so far, but I have to work very conservatively and refer religiously to the waveform monitor and scopes to make sure the image is roughly what it appears to be.

If the folks at the helm won't put in what it takes to get a proper finish then you really are sailing on a ship of fools. Try not to take this the wrong way...

ROBERT PLANT
"Ship Of Fools"

On waves of love my heart is breaking
And stranger still my self control I can't rely on anymore
New tides surprise - my world it's changing
Within this frame an ocean swells - behind this smile I know it well
Beneath a lover's moon I'm waiting
I am the pilot of the storm - adrift in pleasure I may drown
I built this ship - it is my making
And furthermore my self control I can't rely on anymore
I know why - I know why
Crazy on a ship of fools
Crazy on a ship of fools
Turn this boat around - back to my loving ground
Who claims that no man is an island
While I land up in jeopardy - more distant from you by degrees
I walk this shore in isolation
And at my feet eternity draws ever sweeter plans for me
I know why - I know why
Crazy on a ship of fools
Crazy on a ship of fools
Turn this boat around - back to my loving ground
Oh no, oh no - ship of fools --


Yngwie Malmsteen
Ship Of Fools

When the rats are bailing out
And you are just signing on
Then you turned and walked away
There is no love lost here, my friend

But you have made a great mistake
You ate the hook, the sink and bait
Now you can't get out
It's much too late

The ship of fools keep sailing on
The ship of fools keep sailing on
And on and on and on

But I can be merciless for sure
And you'll sail for many moons
I can't believe you lost your mind
I'll watch you falling down, again

You have been living in a dream
And I can hear the same old theme
But nothing's ever what it seems

The ship of fools keep sailing on
The ship of fools keep sailing on
The ship of fools keep sailing on
And on and on and on

The truth is always hard to face
Especially when you are in that place,
Like the ship of fools

The ship of fools keep sailing on
The ship of fools keep sailing on
The ship of fools keep sailing on
And on and on and on

The ship of fools keep sailing on
The ship of fools keep sailing on
The ship of fools keep sailing on
And on and on and on

[M Most]

I can't possibly do better than quoting the great singer, cinematographer, and philosopher Robert Plant, but the suggestion to go out to videotape is a pretty good one, if only because it will eliminate any of the potential pitfalls of files, such as unexpected gamma shifts and proper SMPTE scaling. Plus, there are a lot of properly set up studios in which you can play the tape on proper monitors to confirm that what you have is what you intended to have. Of course, all of that is assuming you have the capability of playing out to videotape, or know someone who does.

[Alex Stolpakov]

What is the intent for converting ICC to LUT for the 3d display LUT ? Is it Perceptual or Relative Colorimetretic ? Should the input and output be linearizied ? And it seems the use of black point compensation is reasonable , or not ? It all probably differ depending on the situation but my goal is to have visually the same feeds - dvi and hdmi (through different cards, one have profiles implemented- video card, another BM doesn't ) to one monitor in same system. I could probably eyeball the variants but knowledge how to do it WRIGHT would be a big help. Thank You in advance.

[danibam]

Hi Mike ... maybe you could help me clarify this as I do find it kind of confusing !

I have been hearing lately that newest cameras like EPIC, SONY F65 ... all process internally in 16 bits ... somewhere I heard/read EPIC is currently 14 bits but soon to be 16 bits with upcoming sensor upgrades. Even read something about ALEXA doing some kind of dual processing of the sensor information ... in 16 bits.

My question is though related to the bit depth actually delivered by the RAW files. I believe ARRIRAW delivers 12 bit Log encoded RAW ... and I always thought R3D files were 12 bits RAW as well (delivering linear light and not log though). I am not sure what SONY's SRmemory RAW files are, but I believe they claim 16 bits linear ... Has the R3D file format changed with EPIC claiming 14 bits (or 16 bits) ...

Also wanted to ask if internal camera processing is fixed point or floating point? I somehow believe it is fixed point ! ... would that really matter? What about what is delivered in the RAW files? Is that floating or fixed point?

Mainly curious about this !! ... thought you were the best person to ask !!

Thanks,

Daniel Perez
WhyOnSet Madrid

[Caleb Heymann]

Hi Mike, I tried posting this but so far nobody has replied and I think it's a very important issue that gets little attention here on Reduser. After all, HDRX is touted as one of the great features of the Epic and it's a great tool, but there's surprisingly little discussion of how to implement it into workflows.

I'm on a 12 day commercial job as DIT right now and we are shooting a lot of HDRX footage, and I'm trying to figure out what is currently the best HDRX workflow to preserve both the dynamic range as well as greatest possible resolution for image stabilizing. On set I am using Magic Motion to render DNXHD36 files for the offline edit, but I need to find the best solution for finishing.

The first question is, do any of the finishing platforms currently support magic motion? I realize that it has been part of the SDK, but not sure if it has been incorporated into Resolve or any of the other platforms.

If not, then what workflow are people using for HDRX?

One option would be to do the blend / luma key, image stabilizing, motion blur, etc in VFX (we already have a lot of VFX shots) but this would be expensive, incurring unexpected costs and may mean that we only have 2k DPX available for the grade.

Another option would be for me to use RedcineX to create redlogfilm 4k DPX files using Magic Motion and to hand those over for the grade. But that will be a huge amount of data and extra rendering on my end. If I go 2k Prores 4444 then it limits the amount of image stabilizing (lots of tracking vehicles, russian arm, etc to stabilize) so that's not idea either.

So I'm calling out to redusers for best workflows, platforms and settings to get the most dynamic range out of HDRX for an online while rendering motion as normal as possible. I'd really appreciate anything the community could share.

Thanks, Caleb

[M Most]

Hi Mike ... maybe you could help me clarify this as I do find it kind of confusing !

I have been hearing lately that newest cameras like EPIC, SONY F65 ... all process internally in 16 bits ... somewhere I heard/read EPIC is currently 14 bits but soon to be 16 bits with upcoming sensor upgrades. Even read something about ALEXA doing some kind of dual processing of the sensor information ... in 16 bits.

My question is though related to the bit depth actually delivered by the RAW files. I believe ARRIRAW delivers 12 bit Log encoded RAW ... and I always thought R3D files were 12 bits RAW as well (delivering linear light and not log though). I am not sure what SONY's SRmemory RAW files are, but I believe they claim 16 bits linear ... Has the R3D file format changed with EPIC claiming 14 bits (or 16 bits) ...

Also wanted to ask if internal camera processing is fixed point or floating point? I somehow believe it is fixed point ! ... would that really matter? What about what is delivered in the RAW files? Is that floating or fixed point?

Mainly curious about this !! ... thought you were the best person to ask !!

I'm really not, as I don't work for Red and have no insight into the camera design or processing path. Perhaps you should redirect this to Stuart or Graeme.

[M Most]

Another option would be for me to use RedcineX to create redlogfilm 4k DPX files using Magic Motion and to hand those over for the grade. But that will be a huge amount of data and extra rendering on my end. If I go 2k Prores 4444 then it limits the amount of image stabilizing (lots of tracking vehicles, russian arm, etc to stabilize) so that's not ideal either.

So I'm calling out to redusers for best workflows, platforms and settings to get the most dynamic range out of HDRX for an online while rendering motion as normal as possible. I'd really appreciate anything the community could share.

Since dealing with HDRx footage involves decisions based on the particular shot, and since it involves a number of choices (motion blending, keying, etc) there is no "ideal" way to use it. Each job has its own individual needs and each image has its own individual needs. HDRx is not a "single button" solution, it is a tool that requires the use of other tools and techniques to be of meaningful use. If your particular footage requires both motion blurring/blending and no cropping, then one price you probably have to pay is a larger image size if you do the image combining as a pre-comp process. Trying to do the blending in a "live" correction path is not particularly optimal in many, if not most cases, because you'll essentially be pulling two streams, doubling the bandwidth requirements and image processing requirements of whatever software and hardware you're using. If you've got a very beefy system, that can be done, as evidenced by the numerous systems doing stereoscopic work. But you're probably better off pre-processing the combined images and using the result in your grading/finishing session to better allow for fluid playback and fewer headaches.

[mikeburton]

Hey Mike,
I've been debating upgrading our facility projector for a few months and have been hesitant due to the added cost of installing 220w power required and a little bit of contractor work on our room. I recently heard about the new Sony VPL-VW1000 4K home theatre model. It says it's DCI complient and all the reports I'm hearing are great. But I was wondering if you had any experience or advice in this area? Is the Barco DP-12C the better way to go with the added cost factor? Our room is approximately 22ft x 18ft and we have a 147" Stewart Screen so it should be perfect to hang in our current spot approximately 16ft from the screen. Any info would be appreciated.
Thank you sir!

[Nick Metcalf]

Hi Mike, I was listening to an fxguide interview recently where Peter Doyle describes using a 3D color matrix to neutralize an image:

"If you just desat the blue you would be desating everything of its blue by the same amount... where if you use are using a 3D color matrix it would just say wherever there is more blue than red and green neutralize it to be the same."

@ 00:37:50

Do you know how this can be achieved? In this case is a 3d matrix the same as a 3d lut?

Thanks!