Epic x soon?

[Peter Matthes]

Hi,

Can someone put a 'actual' difference one has to pay by comparing the price of EPIC-M and EPIC-X.

Thks

Harcharan

It's impossible to properly quantify the exact cost difference until Red clarifies the current stage system. I think it is inaccurate to say that it is simply a $10,000 difference. It might be fairly close for a complete outsider, but not for a stage eligible camera owner.

For a stage eligible camera owners to buy an Epic-M, it means they will either end up buying two Epic cameras (1 M, 1 X), or sell their place in line for the Epic-X.

Furthermore, Stage 2 and 3 owners currently expect some camera accessories (LCD, modules, module adapter, Redvolts and charger, etc.) as a loyalty bonus. If stage eligible camera owners were able to utilize their trade in value toward an Epic-M, it might very well sway some to go that direction. However, it would still cause confusion among Stage 2 and 3 owners until there is more "bonus module" information out there.

My guess is that Red wants to wait and see where the Japanese price environment will level out. Then they will crunch the numbers and refine the new stage system.

[Paolo Tinari]

Never assume.

[Martin Weiss]

(I added a ? to the thread title so as not to raise false hopes)

[Jeff Coatney]

I'm preparing for 60 days... Hoping for 45 days... Wishing for 30 days... May have to be institutionalized as delusional for 20 days...

[Michael Thornton]

I'm preparing for 60 days... Hoping for 45 days... Wishing for 30 days... May have to be institutionalized as delusional for 20 days...

"What dreams may come?"

[AnthonyFlores]

Whether the difference is $10,000 ... $15,000 ... or $20,000 between M and Stage 2 or 3 -- I think it's pretty safe to say that many M owners have (or will) have recouped the price difference during the time gap (between receiving an M, and whenever Stage 2 or 3 ships) via rentals and jobs.

My problem is that I'm staying temporarily working/living in a country where rental is not that viable of an option. And by the time I'm back in LA full time later this summer, we should be pretty close to early Stage 3. So the premium doesn't make as much sense for me.

But overall, I agree with Tom -- if I was someplace where I could be renting it and putting it to work on paid jobs -- I would not hesitate on the M ...

[Jim McKinney]

But if you're business plan was to trade in and trade up to the Epic . . .
then you have to hope very hard that someone in Japan (or elsewhere) comes through reasonably soon.

[Mike 'Fireman' Ross]

But if you're business plan was to trade in and trade up to the Epic . . .
then you have to hope very hard that someone in Japan (or elsewhere) comes through reasonably soon.

Exactly. For folks who are impatient, need the camera and can earn significantly immediately, M makes sense. For guys like me (stage 3, limited budget) a choice between $60k for M, and $10k plus R1 trade-in for Stage 3 X... is no choice at all.

If it's only 18 bloody parts out of thousands... they *can't*, individually or collectively, add *that* much to the cost of the camera... if RED have to put a few hundred bucks on the price tag we would understand I'm sure. I suspect the bigger issue is simply the logistics of running a production line; small-batch irregular supplies of components are not such a big deal when you're hand-building a few hundred (EPIC-M), but are a serious problem when you're trying to start a line making thousands (EPIC-X) and a complete non-starter when you're making tens of thousands (Scarlet).

The actual component part cost of electronics tends to be a fairly small percentage of the purchase price remember - you're paying for a LOT of R&D, assembly & QC, overheads, support, and profit. At least with RED there's not much marketing budget; everyone who matters knows who they are, what they do, and how good they are at it :)

Mike

[AnthonyFlores]

Exactly. For folks who are impatient, need the camera and can earn significantly immediately, M makes sense. For guys like me (stage 3, limited budget) a choice between $60k for M, and $10k plus R1 trade-in for Stage 3 X... is no choice at all.

If it's only 18 bloody parts out of thousands... they *can't*, individually or collectively, add *that* much to the cost of the camera... if RED have to put a few hundred bucks on the price tag we would understand I'm sure. I suspect the bigger issue is simply the logistics of running a production line; small-batch irregular supplies of components are not such a big deal when you're hand-building a few hundred (EPIC-M), but are a serious problem when you're trying to start a line making thousands (EPIC-X) and a complete non-starter when you're making tens of thousands (Scarlet).

The actual component part cost of electronics tends to be a fairly small percentage of the purchase price remember - you're paying for a LOT of R&D, assembly & QC, overheads, support, and profit. At least with RED there's not much marketing budget; everyone who matters knows who they are, what they do, and how good they are at it :)

Mike

I understand what you're saying Mike ... but not quite an apples-to-apples comparison there. What you get in Stage 3 is NOT equal to what comes in an M package -- as it was announced before, it doesn't have the side handle, SSD module, SSD media, or Bomb EVF. That's probably about $12-15,000 in extras to equal an M package. So really, it's more like Red One + $23-25,000. With Epic-M being $58,000, the real difference is more like $13,000-18,000 (forgive me if my math sucks, these are all very quick mental estimates.)

Now if you consider someone in a Stage 3 position (let's assume end of July for delivery date), who has rental demand or client needs where the M would enable them to profit from extra rentals/jobs ... and that person got an M in early April, that person essentially has 4 months where he'd have the M in hand, and would only need about $4-5000 per month in M-camera-generated income for it to be a smart business decision. Anything over that would be gravy.

Also, this is not even factoring in that some are selling their Stage 2's at a slight profit, and then using that extra money to help finance the M. With the extra money and head start with the camera, they get into the green that much faster.

Like I said, if I were somewhere that I could aggressively rent it or use it to land new jobs, the M would be a no brainer now. But I'm not, so it doesn't.

But given how many smart Redusers are dropping the $58k lately, it's obviously that it's a great business move for many of these guys :)

[Elsie N]

Looking for a silver lining to the Epic X delay? Then consider that there should be plenty of modules, media, and firmware upgrades completed by the time it ships. Not sure if that would have been the case if it had shipped according to previous schedule.