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  1. #41  
    Senior Member Steve Sherrick's Avatar
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    I have found RC 42 to show some worthy improvement and when using it in 4KHD mode it is perfect for me. Yes, some additional data to backup but some nicer quality. And 4.5k mode at RC42 is beautiful. So, in general I agree with Mike that if the quality of RC 28 and RC 36 is good enough, then shows might as well stick with it. However if data rate is not the issue and quality is a bigger factor, opt for RC42. Jim, thanks for giving us the options!
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  2. #42  
    Senior Member Shawn Nelson's Avatar
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    Im very curious to get to see some tests...

    To me, RC42 looks absolutely amazing, whether it's faces, greenscreen elements or vfx plates, and since that is 7.5:1...why would we EVER need 5:1? In fact, most of the time on Red I cant even tell the difference between RC36 and RC42...so just in between 9:1 and 7.5:1 we are WAY into the tail or diminishing returns. Again, so why would we ever want to record at 5:1? To me it sounds like 7:1, 8:1 or 9:1 is the sweet range for Epic, not 5:1.
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  3. #43  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherrick View Post
    I have found RC 42 to show some worthy improvement and when using it in 4KHD mode it is perfect for me. Yes, some additional data to backup but some nicer quality. And 4.5k mode at RC42 is beautiful. So, in general I agree with Mike that if the quality of RC 28 and RC 36 is good enough, then shows might as well stick with it. However if data rate is not the issue and quality is a bigger factor, opt for RC42. Jim, thanks for giving us the options!
    Define "worthy improvement." I'm not doubting you, I'm just interested in what you see that causes you to say that.
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  4. #44  
    Moderator Gunleik Groven's Avatar
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    I am a bit curious, too.

    I'd love to see some A/B examples...

    (haven't run any of those on RC 42 myself)
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  #45  
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    Funny... since we are dealing with the big dogs now, some of which were not really RED fans, the lower compression option seems to be a big factor in them "looking again" at RED. I'm not sure if it is real or a justification but it doesn't matter.

    The truth is that there is a steep curve of improvement with lower compression starting at 20:1 (acceptable) to about 7:1. After that the curve noses over. While there continues to be improvement to 5:1, it becomes almost impossible to see much of a difference from there to 3:1... just more data to deal with. So when we say 5:1 is the "sweet spot", that is the very best image we can get at the best data rate. Others will argue (successfully) that 7:1 or 8:1 is just perfect. And at a much lower data rate.

    My bet is that many will pull out the microscope and test this to death so I'm not concerned that everyone will have a clear picture in a short amount of time.

    I personally landed on 5:1 as my pick... but yesterday switched to 6:1. I'm sure everyone will have a favorite given different conditions.

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  #46  
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elsie N View Post
    Which begs the question, do you see future RED SSDs on the horizon that will accommodate the higher frame rates and lower compression?
    Moore's Law...

    Jim
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  7. #47  
    Senior Member Steve Wake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elsie N View Post
    Which begs the question, do you see future RED SSDs on the horizon that will accommodate the higher frame rates and lower compression?
    Actually, I'm interested in the other end of the performance spectrum. Have RED considered selling the "seconds" - the SSD's that don't make the current specs, but would be good enough for, say, 8:1, 120fps, 3K 2:1, no HDRx (i.e. almost any use on Scarlet)? I know nothing more about chip fabrication than I've read on REDUSER, but it would seem that RED is taking the cream of the crop for it's SSD's, but there would be plenty of "lighter cream" available from the fabricator for Scarlet owners. I'm assuming these would be made available a a substantial discount to the current SSD's. Even half the speed of what I spec'd above would work for me, and I suspect a lot of Scarlet owners.
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  #48  
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Wake View Post
    Actually, I'm interested in the other end of the performance spectrum. Have RED considered selling the "seconds" - the SSD's that don't make the current specs, but would be good enough for, say, 8:1, 120fps, 3K 2:1, no HDRx™ (i.e. almost any use on Scarlet)? I know nothing more about chip fabrication than I've read on REDUSER, but it would seem that RED is taking the cream of the crop for it's SSD's, but there would be plenty of "lighter cream" available from the fabricator for Scarlet owners. I'm assuming these would be made available a a substantial discount to the current SSD's. Even half the speed of what I spec'd above would work for me, and I suspect a lot of Scarlet owners.
    Good question. We reject all that don't pass. I'm not sure we have the bandwidth to sell two different qualities with special WARNING markings. Will consider but probably unlikely.

    Jim
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  9. #49  
    Senior Member Steve Wake's Avatar
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    Thanks for answering, and considering. And of course for making this technology accessible!
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  10. #50  
    Senior Member Shawn Nelson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannard View Post
    Good question. We reject all that don't pass. I'm not sure we have the bandwidth to sell two different qualities with special WARNING markings. Will consider but probably unlikely.

    Jim
    Jim, what about cheap, Red1 and Scarlet only media? Surely most of your rejects could handle RC42 on Red1 easily
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