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  1. #1 Red Ray instead of Blu-Ray? 
    Senior Member Mathieu Ghekiere's Avatar
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    Just throwing a question out here:

    I'm still on an old widescreen CRT with a great image. An older DVD player, and a nice DVD collection.

    I know at one point in time I will have to update to an HDTV.
    I don't have a problem with that.

    I'm not so sure of Blu-Ray though...
    I don't know if it's smart to invest in a new optical format at this point. In Belgium, most people still are on DVD, so the format will probably completely break trough in a year or so. But is it wise to invest in an optical format, when the future may lie in solid state media?

    I don't have a problem with investing in Blu-Ray (although I'm not a particular big fan of the format, not because of technical reasons, but the way Sony handles its consumers with the format) if the next future format is 10 years away. But if we're talking about a good breaktrough in RED RAY or another format in 3 years or so, it seems stupid to invest in a whole new format. (points to the HD-DVD people)

    I know RED Ray isn't there yet, and RED completely isn't in the consumer-space. But if my current set would be broken, at one point in the future, I want to think about bying into highly properiatary media which is maybe dead in a couple of years again. (RED RAY works with Drives and normal DVD's, right?)
    I know you can't spend forever waiting for the next big thing, but just not completely fond of Blu-Ray - although I realise that technically, it's one of the best consumer HD formats at this point.
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  2. #2  
    Senior Member Tim Hole's Avatar
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    Don't wait around for RED RAY as a consumer format. Blu-ray is taking far too long to standardise. I think Blu-Ray is starting to come into its own but its very slow. What annoys the crap out of me even more is that the people who should be Blu-ray standard by now aren't. I'm talking about festival screeners. Hardly anyone accepts blu-ray which is to me ridulous considering the speed the industry is moving.

    In short blu-ray is not going anyway fast. I might go further and say it could even be the last for a long time. I think digital implementation will become so much of a standard that a replacement for blu-ray will be even slower.

    I love actually having physical discs and shelves to glance over whilst deciding what to watch. I enjoy collecting them, in the same way I still collect vinyl. But digital will be the norm in the not too distant future me thinks.
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  3. #3  
    Moderator Gunleik Groven's Avatar
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    I have ONE BR disc.

    I have a lot of 1080 and some 4k masters...

    I have quite a few 1080/2k deliverables. Not on physical media, though.

    With the bandwith RED is hinting at (at the moment) BR will not be very nice to collect.

    I like PS3, though...
    Life is good. So is RED...

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  4. #4  
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    RED Ray?

    I think its an awesome technology. I suspect it could become the poor mans DCP.

    But for movie watching at home?

    I think you go with BluRay.

    The picture quality is phenomenal. A lot of the films you can get on BluRay haven't looked that good since their theatrical runs.

    And it is a LOT of films.

    Why not wait for RED Ray?

    It will be a cold day in hell before Sony pictures signs on to RED Ray. I think they'll ride BluRay until its plainly outdated... then they'll try to make their own format. They certainly aren't interested in using a format developed by someone who's eating their lunch in cameras.

    As to the others... RED Ray requires a lot of upgrading to the finishing standards of their back catalog, plus ongoing investment in 4K they may not want to make for all their films.

    Also, a great deal of material shot and finished for TV in the old SD days will never transition to 1080p very well... forget 4K. There are very few exceptions. The original Star Trek series would get remastered from new film scans for example, but even Star Trek requires new digital assets, compositing and lots of other new post. The BluRay version will be THE version for a long while.

    I think BluRay may be the last physical media format, and I think it will be a while before digital downloads match, much less surpass, the quality of that medium.

    It really is phenomenal. Comparing The Fifth Element BluRay to broadcast HD is eye opening. The BluRay makes the HD broadcast look pitiful. The HD broadcast in turn makes the DVD (even the Superbit editions) look pale and wan.

    It isn't perfect, and frankly I'd love to see movies like 2001 remastered for 4K RED Ray.

    I'm just not optimistic that that will ever happen. At least not before they fall into the public domain.
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  #5 Blue Ray v's RED RAY 
    Red Team Stuart English's Avatar
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    RED RAY? I think its an awesome technology. I suspect it could become the poor mans DCP. But for movie watching at home? I think you go with BluRay.The picture quality is phenomenal. A lot of the films you can get on BluRay haven't looked that good since their theatrical runs.
    Unfortunately despite the high bit rate, actual Blu-ray image quality is about as phenomenal as a prosumer 1080p camcorder's is v's 4K RED ONE .R3D's

    There is just NO comparison on image quality, and the bigger the screen the more obvious that is - RED RAY delivers true colors, resolution, dynamic range...

    I accept Blu-ray has an installed base and is not likely to go away, but I for one would not purchase a system having seen RED RAY images. Just no way.
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  6. #6  
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    What does dynamic range have to do with anything?
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  7. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart English View Post
    Unfortunately despite the high bit rate, actual Blu-ray image quality is about as phenomenal as a prosumer 1080p camcorder's is v's 4K RED ONE .R3D's

    There is just NO comparison on image quality, and the bigger the screen the more obvious that is - RED RAY delivers true colors, resolution, dynamic range...

    I accept Blu-ray has an installed base and is not likely to go away, but I for one would not purchase a system having seen RED RAY images. Just no way.
    See... I wrote too much again and obscured my point.

    I haven't seen the RED Ray tech, but I think its so good on paper, that it could become a low end replacement for DCP. I'll go further and say that it will probably become an important tool for film makers.

    It will cost studios a lot to take advantage of RED Ray with their legacy media.

    At least one powerful studio is harming their own pocketbook by not using BluRay.

    So, expanding and amplifying...

    The context of this question is watching movies in the home.

    What .r3d, or any professional format, can do is immaterial.

    Most consumers don't have displays that can maximize the content on their BluRay discs. A better format is completely pointless for them until the display technology is markedly improved.

    RED Ray is as useful to the owner of a brand new HDTV as BluRay itself is to an owner of a 1989 TV.

    I'd be happy to see consumer HDTV's that can outperform BluRay, but I won't hold my breath.

    I'd also love to see RED Ray gain wide acceptance as a consumer distribution format. Again, I'm not holding my breath.

    Of course, even if you deliver 4K displays and RED Ray, most people won't notice the difference or may not care. Very few people care about images as much as we do.
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  8. #8  
    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart English View Post
    I accept Blu-ray has an installed base and is not likely to go away, but I for one would not purchase a system having seen RED RAY images. Just no way.
    As long as the full Blu Ray catalogue is not coming to Red Ray there is no alternative and competition here for cinephiles. No films, no sales.
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  9. #9  
    Moderator Gunleik Groven's Avatar
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    Thing is...

    If RED has got the catalogues for webdistribution, then I guess there is a case here.

    If not, whoever comes up with a good webdistribution codec and model will get it.

    There are two natural suspects:

    Sony with its ps3 installed base and Apple/iTunes.

    Both have the hardware and distribution model in place. All they lack is the codec and the catalogue.

    As it seems like Red and Sony are not really working against eachother anymore, both are not impossible... Maybe...
    Life is good. So is RED...

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  #10 Displays 
    Red Team Stuart English's Avatar
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    See... I wrote too much again and obscured my point.
    No it's a good point, I'm just offering a counterpoint.

    Good debate.
    Workflow Wizard
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