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  #1 The Big Mistake... 
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    I have said this before but I'll say it again, shooting features or serious television in 1080P is a big mistake. Since this view will certainly get thrown around the industry, let me explain why.

    1. With the certain new standard of 4K delivery for movies AND tv, anything shot on 1080P will be left in the cold for a re-release. Several major companies have 4K displays and projectors nearing release to theaters and to the public. Sony has already converted many theaters to their 4K projectors. Epson has a killer home 4K projector in waiting. Panasonic, Samsung, Christie, Barco, Sharp, Meridian, and others are ready to get their fair share.

    2. 1080P is not a quality replacement for film. It has 1/4 the actual measured resolution of film (some less than that). To make the "big screen" it needs sharpening. Often times lots of it. Sharpening is not good for the skin. Real resolution beats sharpening every time... by a lot.

    It is my firm belief that hindsight will show the 1st two digital standards, SD and HD, will be considered "mistakes" in the not to distant future. Film will never be considered a mistake. It is the gold standard. It will hold up to 4K releases and you will see many classics re-released in 4K.

    Don't count television out of 4K. The delivery mechanism is coming.

    I started RED because I did not believe that 1080P was an adequate replacement for film. I love film. When its day is done, we need to honor it with at least as good an image... hopefully better. 1080P is not it.

    (Steps down from soapbox)

    Jim
    Last edited by Jannard; 12-18-2010 at 04:52 AM.
    "The camera is arguably one of the most important of all inventions… it is the single tool that has the ability to stop time, record history, generate art, tell stories, and communicate messages that transcend language like nothing else ever conceived."

    "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude.
     

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    Senior Member Shane Betts's Avatar
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    And we're all thankful you did Jim. On a daily basis. Thank you for sticking stubbornly to your views.

    And by the way, I think you can add in passing off cameras at 1440 x 540 as 1080 as another mistake.
    Cheers
    Bettsy
     

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    Always shoot at the highest available resolution, then downconvert it to whatever resolution is required for delivery (720p, 1080p and so on).
     

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    Jim
    The mistake is yours if you think that they care about quality anymore....
    David Namir
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    Senior Member Petr Dvorak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David (dudi) Namir View Post
    Jim
    The mistake is yours if you think that they care about quality anymore....
    Sad but true.
    Pleeease get me out of this 8 bit world!
     

  6. #6  
    Quote Originally Posted by David (dudi) Namir
    Jim
    The mistake is yours if you think that they care about quality anymore....
    Quote Originally Posted by Petr Dvorak View Post
    Sad but true.
    So many "craftsmen" (in all industries) have seen their talents become under-appreciated, then not appreciated, then not needed anymore as technological advancements usher in homogenised, lower cost alternatives that seemingly anyone can use (poorly).

    I have seen the general population move away from Freddie Francis photography appreciation towards 10 million views for a cat springing out of a bush and wrapping itself onto a baby's face, shot on a shaky, 2 megapixel phone.

    Still, I guess there remains a discerning high quality image market for sports, special effects sequences, and porn.

    Whilst there's no doubt resolution will increase, it seems doubtful that there will be a renaissance of human craftsmanship in image capture.

    Business models these days are often low-cost homogenisation for the masses for maximum profit... including of course as many "automatic" features as possible. Profits soar as the niche craftsmen (or women) disappear. Apple's share prices go stratospheric as their products become more automatic and increasingly (mass) user-friendly.

    Big budget cinema (like Spiderman) deals in image quality and craftsmen, but it's a niche market. "Blockbuster" films have become increasingly more often than not sadly formulaic themselves, (homogenisation again) starting right at the script level.

    It's an interesting philosophical arena for Jim Jannard, being such a quality aficionado and champion, creating a product which in fact may diminish the artisanship of human capture. That's contentious, but it's logical. In this instance, the artisanship shifts and actually becomes the invention of the user friendly machine itself. The artists more and more become the people who create the algorithms and the software programming. The product may very well progress the way of Apple where in a way the product is the art.

    A little while ago Jim said he's concentrating on pro, (he's a champion of the pro) yet IMO he will in reality shrink the gap between pro and mass user, the paths will inexorably converge.

    When convergence occurs, the average guy will film the cat springing onto the baby's face at 28k (on his phone), (in 3D), the people who mastered lighting for low sensitivity film-stock will all be gone, and perhaps my melancholy then will be left to content, rather than capture. Capture will be ubiquitous and high quality and everyone will be doing it, in natural light and near pitch black; the "craft" of capture will be very different to what it was, the images will be so "great", anyone can do it, automatic composition and grading and all. You'll be downloading apps to make your film look just like Spiderman, and it will... and you'll probably instruct software by voice to construct special effects and those human special effects artists will be gone too.

    The argument can be that there will always be the "craftsman" who will use the tool better than others, that all tools need a craftsman, but the very nature of the technological advances for the masses, and at times their narcissism and indifference to real craft, seems to suggest otherwise.

    I guess what I'm saying is the art and craft of the human shifts, incrementally moves into the art of technology. (Until immersive virtual reality arrives and a new wave of artists appear!) So whilst we all cheer on the Epic, the humans also all cheer on the machine. That's life and change as we know it, it's happened elsewhere and it's now rolling on into photography and film as it's rolled over so many before.

    Oh well, having said all that, I have a RED (#2150), and will be doing everything I can to purchase an Epic just to make little films and hope that someone somewhere cares about the human aspect of the story and how I do it. (Me.)
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by David (dudi) Namir View Post
    Jim
    The mistake is yours if you think that they care about quality anymore....
    Then why is Youtube et al moving to HD?
    One camera is a shoot... two or more is a production...
    Chrysalis... shooting 2015
    L.C. (Elsie) N., dba nelloProductions, LLC
     

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elsie N View Post
    Then why is Youtube et al moving to HD?
    YouTube is not film/motion picture format in a traditional manner, Jim and Red Digital Cinema are looking to create cameras for the big screen, theatrical release, in which hundreds of people are sitting in a dark hall and watching the magic on the once called the silver screen.
    On YouTube at my computer screen it all looks good but project it on the big screen and you will see the difference.
    David Namir
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  9. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by David (dudi) Namir View Post
    YouTube is not film/motion picture format in a traditional manner, Jim and Red Digital Cinema are looking to create cameras for the big screen, theatrical release, in which hundreds of people are sitting in a dark hall and watching the magic on the once called the silver screen.
    On YouTube at my computer screen it all looks good but project it on the big screen and you will see the difference.
    David, I think Jim intends to bring 4k even into the living room, be it through the internet or tv, as well as theatrical release. The way I see it is that finally we will have a camera that covers the full range for content providers.
    One camera is a shoot... two or more is a production...
    Chrysalis... shooting 2015
    L.C. (Elsie) N., dba nelloProductions, LLC
     

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  #10  
    Red Leader Jannard's Avatar
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    BTW... we had such a good day at the Spider-man shoot. John Schwartzman is so good at his craft. The EPICs are beating expectations. The images are absolutely incredible. Today felt like the payoff for everything we have worked for. I can't sleep it was so good. 4:45am here...

    Jim
    "The camera is arguably one of the most important of all inventions… it is the single tool that has the ability to stop time, record history, generate art, tell stories, and communicate messages that transcend language like nothing else ever conceived."

    "Everything in life changes... including our camera specs and delivery dates..."

    We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone with a bad attitude.
     

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