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10-26-2007, 07:56 AM
I like the Birger guys, and am really excited about their product. But I wish they'd take a page from Jim's playbook and actually tell us how things are coming along. They must be having some problems to disappear like this without updates or order forms.
10-26-2007, 08:02 AM
Zeke,
Your wife will love you for spending so much money on her. :innocent:
10-26-2007, 08:30 AM
The new mount might have changed things. From what I know most of the issues were physical things, i.e. the change in connectors from Hirose (the broadcast standard) to LEMO, finalizing the physical mount for molding, etc. and that may have been dramatically altered by the incorporation of the new mount.Originally Posted by Shawn Nelson
10-26-2007, 08:43 AM
Maybe. I agree with Shawn though. An update every couple of weeks might be nice. What works, what doesn't. Has Nikon work begun or will it be many months following the Canon... etc.
Right now we're in a weird place if you want to use SLR lenses. RED will probably produce a Nikon mount first, but Nikon lenses focus backwards - which is weird. Birger will produce a Canon mount first but god knows if it's vaporware or not. I've never seen a successful focus test. He could hook it to any 35mm adapter as a proof of concept and post the results anytime.
The birger is the most intriguing product though. If you can use electronics to dial in senstivity that changes over the focus range, switch knob directions, use blue tooth AND take advantage of some Canon stabilization. Wow. That's a cool product.
10-26-2007, 09:26 AM
Proof of concept is that it has been working in other markets for several years. I'm not sure if people are aware but the Canon EOS version of the Birger mount is just a RED specific version of the mount they have sold in the industrial/scientific market for several years (the Nikon version is a new product). Main differences are direct mount to RED and the follow focus knob controls instead of handheld or pc control for the industrial product. In other words, the part that makes it hard for another company to make this type of mount is the electronics and software control they have had all along.
I have a pretty strong feeling that the holdup is feeling confident that the production mounts they make will work with the "production" version of RED. I suspect if Birger had put their mount out a month ago they would be sort of screwed now given the recent decision to change the mount (and I imagine RED gave Birger a heads up weeks ago - which would account for Birger's silence since they couldn't say anything due to NDA).
People need to realize that when you manufacture something that uses molded parts, or parts that have to be machined a few hundred at a time to be cost effective, you can't afford to make the final commitment until you are really sure no more last minute changes need to be made. Software changes are easy, hardware changes can get expensive.
I don't have any association with Birger, but we have been extremely interested since the beginning since for our underwater work the Canon EF-S 10-22 has been our primary focus (so to speak) for underwater lenses. Also, I actually had a RED with the Birger physical prototype on it in my hands over a month ago so I know it is not complete BS. I have talked to Erik a couple times and although there were things he couldn't discuss, I can tell you he seemed like a very sharp, pretty straight guy.
10-26-2007, 10:46 AM
No I'm not aware. Post a link to a video of some rack focusing. Sounds like they may need to hire you to be their salesperson and marketing guru 'cause they clearly don't have one... and you're doing as good a job as anyone could. :-)
10-26-2007, 11:18 AM
Respect Aqua Video, I'm sure you are right.
Did you actually follow focus with the birger mount (turn the birger dial and watch the 10-22 change focus), ditto changing exposure..?
I agree that Erik has always seemed very straight in this forum. So why has he disappeared? Who was the last person to communicate with him and when was that? Anyone at RED care to pitch in??
At this stage, even a post from him saying that he is ok and that they are still intending to make the mounts would be reassuring.
Aquavideo, do you and Gibby still have that prototype?
10-26-2007, 11:31 AM
My understanding is the markets that Birger has been in before (industrial, scientific areas) deal with point to point focus motion, where the idea is simply "move from focus point A to focus point B as quickly as the motor can move". I believe the only area where slow focus moves (rack focus) are typically used is the cine world. So in a sense the hard part about electronics and software protocols is done, but as far as I know, a significant part (rack focus) remains to be demonstrated.
It's also interesting because the EOS lenses, being designed for still cameras, were never intended for rack focus cine applications, so the Birger folks are entering somewhat unexplored territory there. Not entirely, because EOS cameras do have a continuous-autofocus mode, but if there is a slightly "jittery" focus action, a still camera user might not notice what a motion picture user would. I am also wondering if the EOS lens motors will move in single-unit increments, which you want for a rack focus, or if "stiction" issues force you to move only in short jumps.
10-26-2007, 12:07 PM
yes, they are designed not to care how they get there but to get you focussed as fast and as silently as possible.
But tis all conjecture.. Erik was really confident months ago that the mount already worked really well wiith canon lenses, and back then he was showing off the follow focus unit
10-26-2007, 02:25 PM
I can see it now..
But Honey! You can use it too!!
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