EPIC HDR...

[JohnF]

How well do HDR modes deal with transients (Strobes, fireworks etc)?

JohnF

[Rob Ruffo]

If they don't put HDRx™ in Scarlet than the next generation of DSLRs (Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Sony, Fuji, Sigma) could "eat" a lot of

Scarlet's sale with their new generation of sensors that will have the better S/N ratio, higher sensitivity, etc...

HDRx™ is must have for any future RED product Scarlet, Epic, or whatever is called the next camera generation (even with Monstro inside!!!).

That means HDRx™ should be already standard in any future RED product.

I think Sanjin you underestimate just how awful DSLRs are as tools on sets that are not "personal project oriented", and where, if, say, a shot is ruined due to moire or some other problem, it means an expensive re-shoot and likely a lost, valued client. I'd much rather a solid 2/3rds cam than a shaky full frame that lets me down half the time.

[Michael Hastings]

Isn't it likely that HDRx is essentially exposing two "fields" (sort of like interlace except they are each full resolution) so call it "48fps-24P/24P+/-3" and using two different shutter speeds to get two different exposures?

Then those two frames are combined, possibly with some interpolation?

And this gives you the FPS limitation since 48fps HDRx is really "96fps-48P/48P+/-3" and some of the remaining processing power has to go to overhead?

[Jeff Kilgroe]

I don't think that's how they're doing it. It's been said that there is no temporal offset or sequential frame capture. My guess is they have a way to take two distinct exposure readings from the same read/reset cycle on the sensor. Thus creating two differently exposed frames, but from the same instance in time, therefore no motion issues or interpolation to deal with. However, having two different exposures from the same sensor read-out still creates two images and uses 2X the rate.

[Lauri Kettunen]

Isn't it likely that HDRx is essentially exposing two "fields"

Once the cameras are out, we will get a better idea. If the HDRx mode does not work with a 360 degree shutter, then two fields sounds plausible. But, although not familiar with the hardware limitations, would rather guess that they manage to read every line of the sensor twice or something like this. Besides, Jim showed this image with waves on the sea. It's difficult to conceive interpolatation between such fields you suggest would work out in this case.

[Daniel Reichenbach]

My bet is that EPIC is the 1st digital camera to beat film in every way.

It is smaller than every 35mm film camera. It has more resolution. More dynamic range. The color science is now perfect. It is cheaper than a film camera. It records to a reusable SSD or CF. The results are NOW.

I have to say that EPIC achieves everything we ever set out to accomplish. Wow.

Jim

Jim, I was at IBC and TED showed me the EPIC and I agree totally with you: There is NO other camera, that will give me all these advantages, from every point. ALEXA is a great product and will find there costumers, no doubt. But my heart beats for revolution AND resolution AND dynamic range AND design AND less money for more camera AND weight AND... You are incredible guys, thanks.

[Paul Nordin]

I think Sanjin you underestimate just how awful DSLRs are as tools on sets that are not "personal project oriented", and where, if, say, a shot is ruined due to moire or some other problem, it means an expensive re-shoot and likely a lost, valued client. I'd much rather a solid 2/3rds cam than a shaky full frame that lets me down half the time.

Hi Rob, Not really wanting to enter into another mind numbing theoretical/hypothetical heated debate of Epic vs. Scarlet vs. 5Dm2. But from your comments it sounds like you are having a harder time using current HDDSLR than may be necessary. It is possible to shoot with cams like 5Dm2, and never disappoint your clients, in fact quite the opposite. I've never let any clients down shooting HDSLR and I've used that "brain" in a variety of types of shooting (mostly commercial and narrative). Red has done a masterful job of positioning Epic/Scarlet brains as the sensor technology around which an acquisition technology and workflows need to be applied. Same thing for cams like 5Dm2.

Anyway. This is not a HDSLR forum, but if you would like to know more about my approach to working with the 5Dm2, which generally guarantees client satisfaction, contact me offlist and perhaps it can be of help.

[Michael Hastings]

I don't think that's how they're doing it. It's been said that there is no temporal offset or sequential frame capture. My guess is they have a way to take two distinct exposure readings from the same read/reset cycle on the sensor. Thus creating two differently exposed frames, but from the same instance in time, therefore no motion issues or interpolation to deal with. However, having two different exposures from the same sensor read-out still creates two images and uses 2X the rate.

So I think you're suggesting maybe they read the same row of pixels twice before moving to next line?

Do we know if the exposure offset has to go in one direction I.e +3 or minus three from what is set? Or are there 3 exposures? One plus and one minus? Or am I missing something obvious? :)

[Roberto Lequeux]

No promises but we are looking at HDRx™™™ with smaller frame sizes and higher fps.

When we said there was a lot of power inside an EPIC... we weren't kidding. :-)

Jim

Awesome. Flexibility is power! It will be very interesting to find out what kind of small FPS gain we will get from dropping down to an S35 area.

Even if just barely higher, it will be a phenomenal tool to have.

[Shawn Nelson]

Hmm. Yea, looks like. Sorry Shawn.

I can follow that sentiment with HDRx™™, yes. If Scarlet only had the easy HDR, I'd be more than happy - I'm unsure enough as it is on how to handle all that data, the render times. Twice the amount... I'm actually hoping that if one or the other is problematic for Scarlet, HDRx™™ is the one which loses out.

Correct, I was saying "it'd be nice if Scarlet does have it"

Though it may be a matter of computer power. If it is, then it may be that only Epic is capable of crunching it.