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  1. #131  
    Well one thing I can say for sure, there is nothing I hate more than aliasing and moire. Absolutely hate both of them with a passion. If I were in a position to buy either an Epic or an Alexa, I would have to go Epic. I'm not saying I wouldn't enjoy an Alexa, it's still a great camera, but for my personal tastes, I gotta go higher resolution so I can down sample and push those artifacts into non-existence.

    And all I can say is anything above 11 stops of dynamic is better than anything I have used so I cannot even really comment on what working with 13+ would be like, must be VERY nice for outdoor shooting. Both of these cameras are great technical achievements and I am sure, once they are both in the wild, people will want specific aspects of both of them. Awesome times I must say.
    Rick Burnett
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  2. #132  
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    So Alexa's charts and DR would come very close, or slightly under the Scarlet 3K M-X sensor?

    I am really looking foward seeing some Scarlet tests, I have no clue whether we will be looking at a cinematic feel kind of camera or rather, something closer to great HD videoish footage.

    Obviously, the DP will make the difference, but you know what I mean.
     

  3. #133  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Caesare View Post
    No disrespect intended, but I'd be open to any other explnation for his comments.
    You would think he would have bracketed his exposures and brought them into post before claiming such a thing as a 3 stop difference. I'm not a fan of these chart tests. We know RED claimed 11+ stops for RED ONE based on charts and now many people call it a 9ish stop camera. What if in the real world people will feel like MX is really 11?

    I don't know, but I do know grayscales can be misleading. I think the Zacuto backlit scene test is much better. The only thing I'd add is exposure bracketing and raw files available for download so people could tweak and make up their own minds.

    Maybe Arri is doing some type of pseudo HDR trick to get all the data down into the viewable range. Is any monitor actually 13+ stops?

    Jury still out IMHO. (I'm EPIC Stage 2 regardless - I do think the guys at RED are tough competitors and know DR is a really big deal)
     

  4. #134 Oh please... 
    Senior Member David M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kilgroe View Post
    Actors sometimes don't like it, especially the ladies. It's no fun when they freak out seeing their face at 1:1 pixel magnification on a 30" DIT monitor or 50" 1080p plasma while tweaking looks or whatnot.
    Oh please, let's not drag THAT old chestnut out of the fire.

    That crap started about ten years ago when people were getting hyperventilated about the idea of replacing 35mm film with 1440 x 1080 HDCAM.

    To look even vaguely passable on a movie screen, they had to sharpen the bejeezus out of HDCAM, which unfortunately has the effect of sharpening up things that weren't meant to be sharpened, adding 10-20 years to an actor's face!

    The answer that people then came up with was that all actors over 30 would need to find employment elsewhere. Yeah right.

    There is no such thing as "too much" native resolution. You can always throw resolution away afterwards, but you can't put back what wasn't there in the first place!

    It's like saying you have too much money. You can always give some of it away, or blow it in Vegas or whatever, but if you don't have any you can't really manufacture it. (Well not legally anyway)

    Image sharpening is the cinematic equivalent of maxxing out your credit cards.

    Credit cards can be a useful way of managing your financial resources, but they are not financial resources in them selves, just as a bit of detail correction can do wonders to spruce up an image, but it's not really detail.
     

  5. #135  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jannard View Post
    You are actually seeing the streaks on the chart. That is what resolutions is all about.

    Jim

    Jim, I'm a big fan of yours, great results

    The mx sensor seems to have a nicer noise floor than the Alexa over some ranges, but vice versa others..

    .. but they look suspiciously like red one streaks to me, when the sensor is under exposed, in many ways. there may have been streaks on the chart, but my brain can't accept that without a better quality image to inspect easier.

    Did the Alexa shoot the same chart?

    ..regardless, less streaks = better (unless were talking naked females at sports events, then the reverse can be true)
     

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  #136  
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    Quote Originally Posted by ronx View Post
    Jim, I'm a big fan of yours, great results

    The mx sensor seems to have a nicer noise floor than the Alexa over some ranges, but vice versa others..

    .. but they look suspiciously like red one streaks to me, when the sensor is under exposed, in many ways. there may have been streaks on the chart, but my brain can't accept that without a better quality image to inspect easier.

    Did the Alexa shoot the same chart?

    ..regardless, less streaks = better (unless were talking naked females at sports events, then the reverse can be true)

    The streaks are in the chart from the printing.
     

  7. #137  
    There is a lot of vertical streaking in the RED image. Is that real or an anomaly of some sort?

    Stephen
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  #138  
    It's actually what that particular chart looks like close up - it's a bit streaky. We thought we had an issue until we examined the chart carefully and saw the lines in the chart!

    Graeme
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  9. #139  
    Senior Member Michael Moreno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    It's actually what that particular chart looks like close up - it's a bit streaky. We thought we had an issue until we examined the chart carefully and saw the lines in the chart!

    Graeme
    That is just awesome.
    With resolution you can get in close on various subjects, not just people,
    and really pick up all of the detail of what your shooting.
    If it looks better to pull back in post from human subjects then it can be done
    Oh and by the way I would only be concerned if the Alexa vs. Red
    meant there was a cheaper and more modular solution
    which there isnt
    So Im pretty sure the majority of us are still and always will be Pro Red
    Alexa looks good and Respect is given
    but...
    Pro Red!
    Epic and Scarlet are modular Beauties....

    Modular Beauties.....
    All my Dreams will be "Shot on Red"
     

  10. #140  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deanan View Post
    The streaks are in the chart from the printing.
    yeah, Jim already said that .. please could you post a link to some HQ 1:1 versions/crops, because I'm preferring the overall DR of the Alexa based on these charts, significantly. If I shouldn't be, please reducate me..

    Epic wins on resolution, but that is secondary to me. I do believe resolution is important, especially with a cfa, but don't believe even full on iMax screens can display more than HD res. frankly, in a meaningful way. Based on current television technology.. I can't even go there..

    ..its for flexibility, such as panning in post, and general oversampling in my mind, and to satisfy niquist. I realise the charts are all 2k, but those "streaks" are doing you a dis-service if thats the whole picture, or the fact they're underexposed is


    Quote Originally Posted by Graeme Nattress View Post
    It's actually what that particular chart looks like close up - it's a bit streaky. We thought we had an issue until we examined the chart carefully and saw the lines in the chart!

    Graeme
    I have no doubt, but the low resolution is not helping gain anything meaningful from these charts, and the streaks are confusing it further, making it all a slightly pointless exercise
     

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