Titanium...

[Brian F Kobylarz]

What if the Titanium mount were powder coated? It would lose the cool factor but would it still retain the functionality that is desired?

Before I answer this, Jeff, you are right - this has taken a bizarre turn - Yogi would be proud; the thread found a fork and took it.

Never-the-less, I need to address the idea of powder coating the titanium mount:

First, You have the best material for a lens interface with it's own natural protective passive oxide film and you want to powder coat it? (why)?

Second, powder coatings begin to deteriorate when exposed to uv rays after 5 to 10 years in normal environmental conditions. Not unusual to have a little extra UV on film sets. Titanium without any powder coating will deliver consistent results far longer.

Third, powder coatings are not easily applied as a thin, texture free layer - it has a tendency to achieve a smooth surface only with thicker particles - that means that film build-ups of greater than 50 μm may be required to obtain an acceptably smooth film. (That is why many manufacturers use powder coating - it allows them to hide surface defects on the metal)
Note: There are alternate methods such as powder slurry which can produce film layers under 30 μm, but again, why bother - titanium creates it's own protective layer when exposed to oxygen. I've run into air on most of my shoots - expect that to continue.

Fourth, if you begin adding a powder coating "layer", you add another dimensional variable to the lens mount interface. I'll trust precision CNC machining to a spray when it comes to delivering precise tolerances.

Fifth, why add another cost to the manufacturing process if there is no net benefit and only potential issues?


If anything (and this really belongs as a separate post) - I would prefer Stainless Steel as standard on EPIC, Aluminum as standard on Scarlet. That would be in line with differentiating one line from the other.
And yes, keep the Ti option there for EPIC owners.

[Elsie N]

Before I answer this, Jeff, you are right - this has taken a bizarre turn - Yogi would be proud; the thread found a fork and took it.

Never-the-less, I need to address the idea of powder coating the titanium mount:

First, You have the best material for a lens interface with it's own natural protective passive oxide film and you want to powder coat it? (why)?

Second, powder coatings begin to deteriorate when exposed to uv rays after 5 to 10 years in normal environmental conditions. Not unusual to have a little extra UV on film sets. Titanium without any powder coating will deliver consistent results far longer.

Third, powder coatings are not easily applied as a thin, texture free layer - it has a tendency to achieve a smooth surface only with thicker particles - that means that film build-ups of greater than 50 μm may be required to obtain an acceptably smooth film. (That is why many manufacturers use powder coating - it allows them to hide surface defects on the metal)
Note: There are alternate methods such as powder slurry which can produce film layers under 30 μm, but again, why bother - titanium creates it's own protective layer when exposed to oxygen. I've run into air on most of my shoots - expect that to continue.

Fourth, if you begin adding a powder coating "layer", you add another dimensional variable to the lens mount interface. I'll trust precision CNC machining to a spray when it comes to delivering precise tolerances.

Fifth, why add another cost to the manufacturing process if there is no net benefit and only potential issues?


If anything (and this really belongs as a separate post) - I would prefer Stainless Steel as standard on EPIC, Aluminum as standard on Scarlet. That would be in line with differentiating one line from the other.
And yes, keep the Ti option there for EPIC owners.

So, you are against powder coating. So what are your views on ultra-hard ceramic coatings?

[Michael Hastings]

Hey Michael, Epic mounts have been slated to be easily replaced by the user since the first announcement, so yes.

Yes, I understand that mounts are user replaceable, but I would like confirmation - from RED (the question was specifically addressed to Jarred) - that the design simplicity is such that alternative mounts can be made by others and used/replaced without the warranty implications/restrictions that were placed on the R1 for FD/EF etc. (other than if you damage it through improper installation or negligence then obviously it isn't covered under warranty.)

BTW, are you ever gonna send me that AquaVideo receipt? It's been only 6 months, 10 requests, and multiple promises from you ever since that small purchase... I am finding it very annoying to have to remind you with no results.

I'm not sure why this thread is the place for this, but the sale of the Tokina 11-16 Canon EF lens (which I bought through B&H) was a personal one through paypal - with a paypal invoice as reflected in the info I copied below from Paypal. I am not sure exactly what was said, but IIRC the idea of being able to give you an AquaVideo invoice was if you had a warranty problem since AquaVideo has been a THK dealer in the past. But unless you are having such a problem, I would rather not muck up AquaVideo accounting by issuing an AV invoice. You said you need it for tax purposes and the paypal invoice should be fine for that.



10/7/2009 USD 580.00 -17.12 562.88
Payment Received : roberto lequeux
ID: 6BF726613F5273147
Completed
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ................................
10/6/2009 USD 580.00 0.00 580.00
Paypal Invoice Request Sent : roberto lequeux
Paid

[Elsie N]

Yeah, I don't think there is any special coating on my titanium mountain bike. It is like 15 years old and still looks great.

My main reason for wanting Ti instead of Al is my old Red One's PL mount got a bit scuffed up.

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Curran, you shoulda had it powder coated.

[Michael Hastings]

Curran, you shoulda had it powder coated.

Are anybody's (i.e. Arri, Aaton, Panavision, etc.) mounts powder coated (other than maybe on the outside)?

[Roberto Lequeux]

Michael, so a paypal invoice would be all I need? I wish you would have said that earlier. I don't buy a lot of equipment, and didn't know how to keep track of it. I will do that. I just didn't understand why my multiple requests invariably led to a promise, followed by a silence...

[Lorenzo Straight]

Great news. Lots of affordable Leica's out there.

[Elsie N]

Are anybody's (i.e. Arri, Aaton, Panavision, etc.) mounts powder coated (other than maybe on the outside)?

Michael, Bryan has already shot down my powder coating idea. I was just thinking that Curran's ugly PL mount could have benefited from a powder coating make-over.

[Michael Hastings]

I just didn't understand why my multiple requests invariably led me to a promise, followed by a silence.

Well, that's just 'cause I'm a fu..up sometimes - :-). You had a right to be a little annoyed.

[Martin Weiss]

What's that PM button for again?