Titanium...

[Meryem Ersoz]

that mount is a work of art.

[Peter Moretti]

Titanium reacts to other compounds easily. It might be okay for a lens mount, but I would hesitate in using it as a chassis material. Regardless of the practicalities of cost in manufacturing, Titanium requires maintenance. It can't come into contact with ordinary tap water, so you have to clean it using distilled water or you get surface pitting. Try keeping such contaminants off the body itself in normal use. I'd like to see a solid carbon body.

Jeff, I have no idea where you're getting this from. Titanium is used all the time in wet, normally corrosive environments b/c it is non-recativity. E.g. inside people for hip replacements, spine supports, head plates. I'd like to see a distilled H2O human body.

[Paul Leeming]

Remember, the mounts on Epic and Scarlet are attached with four screws only, so even if one were damaged, there wouldn't be a need to send the entire camera back (unless the screw taps were somehow destroyed as well?).

I'm sure Red has already got this physics stuff well in the bag as to what would break first to save the most expensive part (kind of like low speed car crash engineering principles) and save having to ship the camera somewhere for repair.

Also, interesting note here on the fact that titanium can't come in contact with regular water. Something to think about if you're shooting in the rain.... though again, I'm sure Red has an answer for that too!

Personally I will equip our Epics with the standard aluminium mounts as I've had no issues on our Red Ones, plus I intend to swap to the Canon mount fairly often as that's my lens goto kit for my own shooting.

Cheers for all the info and yes, it's good to have choices :)

Paul

[Robert Frank]

Also, interesting note here on the fact that titanium can't come in contact with regular water. Something to think about if you're shooting in the rain.... though again, I'm sure Red has an answer for that too!

How can this be true? What about the high end bicycles made of titanium? I was big into mountain biking awhile ago and road a few Litespeed bikes made of Ti, in the woods, through streams, and mud, etc. Hosed off the bike with a garden hose and it looked like new.

Although these were titanium alloys if I remember. Is the RED Ti mount an alloy?

[Brian F Kobylarz]

Also, interesting note here on the fact that titanium can't come in contact with regular water. Something to think about if you're shooting in the rain.... though again, I'm sure Red has an answer for that too!

Paul

Now, now. The RED User thread should not be used to spread false information, rumors or innuendo (Though that could pass for fun on a slow night!)

Although there are hundreds of reference articles easily available to dispel this information, the following obtained from the Titanium Metals Corporation should cover most, if any concerns:

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CORROSION PROPERTIES

GENERAL

Titanium and its alloys provide excellent resistance to general and localized attack under most oxidizing, neutral and inhibited reducing conditions in aqueous environments. They also remain passive under mildly reducing conditions, although they may be attacked by strongly reducing or complexing media. Titanium is especially known for its outstanding resistance to chlorides and other halides generally present in most process streams.

Titanium's corrosion resistance is due to a stable, protective, strongly adherent oxide film which forms instantly when a fresh surface is exposed to air or moisture. This passive film is typically less than 250 A. (A, an angstrom, is 4 x 10^-9 in.) Film growth is accelerated under strongly oxidizing conditions such as in HNO3 and CrO3 (nitric acid, chromic acid), etc. media.

The composition of this film varies from TiO2 at the surface to Ti2O3 to TiO at the metal interface. Oxidizing conditions promote the formation of TiO2. This film is transparent in its normal thin configuration and not detectable by visual means.

A study of the corrosion resistance of titanium is basically a study of the properties of the oxide film. The oxide film on titanium is very stable and is attacked only by a few substances including hot concentrated reducing acids, most notably, hydrofluoric acid. Titanium is capable of healing this film almost instantaneously in every environment where a trace of moisture or oxygen is present because of titanium's strong affinity for oxygen.

Anhydrous conditions in the absence of a source of oxygen should be avoided since the protective film may not be regenerated if damaged.

RESISTANCE TO WATERS

FRESH WATER - STEAM
Titanium resists all forms of corrosive attack by fresh water and steam to temperatures as high as 600 degrees F (316 degrees C). The corrosion rate is very low and a slight weight gain is generally experienced. Titanium surfaces are likely to acquire a tarnished appearance in hot water or steam but will be free of corrosion.

Some natural river waters contain manganese which deposits as manganese dioxide on heat exchanger surfaces. This is harmful and promotes pitting in both austenitic stainless steels and copper alloys. Chlorination treatments used to control sliming result in severe pitting and crevice corrosion on stainless steel surfaces. Titanium is immune to these forms of corrosion and is an ideal material for handling all natural waters.

SEAWATER - GENERAL CORROSION
Titanium resists corrosion by seawater to temperatures as high as 500 degrees F (260 degrees C). Titanium tubing which has been exposed to seawater for many years at depths of over a mile shows no measurable corrosion. It has provided over twenty five years of trouble-free seawater service for the chemical, oil refining and desalination industries. Pitting and crevice corrosion are totally absent, even when marine deposits form. The presence of sulfides in seawater does not affect the resistance of titanium to corrosion. Exposure of titanium to marine atmospheres or splash or tidal zones does not cause corrosion.

EROSION
Titanium has the ability to resist erosion by high velocity seawater. Velocities as high as 120 ft./sec. cause only minimal rise in the erosion rate. The presence of abrasive particles, such as sand, has only a small effect on the corrosion resistance of titanium under conditions that are extremely detrimental to copper and aluminum base alloys. Titanium is considered one of the best cavitation-resistant materials available for seawater service.

_____________________

A note after rereading the section on resistance to water corrosion - if any of us are planning on subjecting our EPIC's to water conditions measured in hundreds of degrees, I suspect that not only would the finish on the lens mount be the least of our concerns, but we might have a warranty problem as well. (Jarred - is it worth a disclaimer?)

[Elsie N]

What if the Titanium mount were powder coated? It would lose the cool factor but would it still retain the functionality that is desired?

[Curran Giddens]

Titanium is used all the time in wet, normally corrosive environments b/c it is non-recativity. E.g. inside people for hip replacements, spine supports, head plates.

Yeah, I don't think there is any special coating on my titanium mountain bike. It is like 15 years old and still looks great.

My main reason for wanting Ti instead of Al is my old Red One's PL mount got a bit scuffed up.

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[Jeff Kilgroe]

Also, interesting note here on the fact that titanium can't come in contact with regular water. Something to think about if you're shooting in the rain.... though again, I'm sure Red has an answer for that too!

What are you talking about? Titanium does just fine in water. I have plenty of underwater gear made from titanium -- knives, clips, buckles, brackets, housings, etc.. Work just fine in both fresh and salt water, heavily chlorinated pools, too.. It's resistive against most common acids, bromides, etc.. Next to gold, titanium is one of the most corrosive-resistant metals. There is one way to corrode titanium, I'll give you guys a hint, the most common form of corroded titanium is titanium dioxide. But you'll have plenty of other problems to worry about before your titanium mount corrodes away.

Oh, well... At least I know if I spill mercury on my titanium mount it will be OK. Because you know, when I spill mercury on anything made of aluminum, it simply melts away....

Really though, this thread is taking a turn towards stupid.

[Michael Hastings]

Jarred: It appears that mount changes are simple - just removing the 4 screws.

Does this mean we will be allowed to swap mounts ourselves and make our own alternative mounts - i.e FD, Contax-Yashica, M42, Pentax 645, etc. without voiding the warranty if we have the facilities to do so? (As I do. In house CNC Haas VF-1, Habegger/schaublin and other lathes, etc.)

[Roberto Lequeux]

Hey Michael, Epic mounts have been slated to be easily replaced by the user since the first announcement, so yes. BTW, are you ever gonna send me that AquaVideo receipt? It's been only 6 months, 10 requests, and multiple promises from you ever since that small purchase... I am finding it very annoying to have to keep remind you with no results.