Click here to go to the first RED TEAM post in this thread.   Thread: ARRI 48fps test

Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 11 12345 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 104
  1. #1 ARRI 48fps test 
    I'm trying to keep an open mind on the topic... but I saw ARRI's test comparing 24 fps shooting and projection (of 2-perf 35mm material, digitally projected at CineGear) to 48 fps shooting and projection.

    The look of 48 fps wasn't particularly appealing to me. Sure, there was a reduction in grain and an increase in smoothness, but it made everything look like it was shot on interlaced-scan video. I guess the 24 fps look is too ingrained in my mind to accept the look of 48 fps.

    I'm becoming more convinced that I'd rather see 4K at 24 fps than 2K at 48 fps, as opposed to what James Cameron has proposed. Though I can understand intellectually that a fast-moving, fast-cut 3D action film should benefit from 48 fps... but my brain is telling me that it would make "Avatar 2" look even more like a video game and less like a movie.

    But then, I'd also rather see 2D 15-perf 65mm IMAX than 3D 2K digital in terms of having an entertaining immersive experience.
    David Mullen, ASC
    Los Angeles
    http://www.davidmullenasc.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2. #2  
    I agree with you David. I love the art and craft of classical visual cinema storytelling. It's just that once our audience is more comfortable with a good video game than a classic movie, the paradigm might shift.
    ______________________

    Florian Stadler, D.P., L.A.
    www.florianstadler.com
    www.buntefarben.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  3.   Click here to go to the next RED TEAM post in this thread.
  #3  
    Red Team Deanan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Posts
    3,846
    IMHO, just like the more subtle use of 3D depth, 48-120fps will end up being used selectively from scene to scene as a create tool rather than a whole feature at 48.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #4  
    Quote Originally Posted by David Mullen ASC View Post
    I

    But then, I'd also rather see 2D 15-perf 65mm IMAX than 3D 2K digital in terms of having an entertaining immersive experience.
    Exactly !
    Frank Mirbach "Jones"
    Director/D.O.P.

    RED ONE MX No. 2560 EPIC X No. 1319

    MINEWORKS FILM - www.mineworks.de
    REAL BUDDY MOVIE - www.real-buddy.com
    SHOWREEL at www.frankmirbach.com
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #5  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    891
    David-

    Any idea of the shutter angle used?

    Thanks.

    -sc
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #6  
    Red Savant Steve Gibby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Southern Utah and worldwide
    Posts
    3,693
    The motion media industry is very broad - and along with that comes a wide range of creative needs and choices. Personally I like 24fps very much for narrative cinema...but higher frame rates for just about every other genre of production. Its a whole big production world out here beyond the "24 fps for everything" paradigm. Our eyes and brains see things smooth - and the suspended reality look of 24fps isn't necessarily the universal way all motion media, or portions of it, needs to be presented to the audience.

    I view 24fps as just one of many frame rate options, depending on the project at hand. There's a good reason why the new generation of cameras like Epic have such a wide range of selectable frame rates, shutter speeds, and quality levels - and that reason is to enable broad utility of the cameras across multiple industries and genres of production. IMO the biggest challenge for users of Epic will be for their attitudes and skill sets to be diverse enough to effectively maximize the capabilities of the camera.

    A lot of my overcranked footage of sports and nature with Red One has been 3k 48fps - and it has been very effective for its intended uses. For subjects like that, the higher the frame rate the better. With Epic I'll be shooting those types of fast moving action at 5k 120fps, or 4k or 3k at even higher frame rates as needed.

    All camera work should effectively tell the story it's intended to tell. IMO the frame rate selected should be the frame rate which best tells the story of that particular genre of production, or portion thereof, ultimately conformed to the technical requirements of the intended delivery medium of the finished production.

    Media Consultant, Executive Producer, Director, DP, Cinematographer
    Red pioneer: RED One 0008, Red One "London", Red One "Hollywood", Epic M 0008, Epic X (2)
    http://www.artbeats.com/footage/search?fh44=1 (Artbeats Gibby RED Collection)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7.   Click here to go to the next RED TEAM post in this thread.
  #7  
    I've mentioned it before, but my personal goal is that fps become a creative tool just as aperture, lens, grading, lighting, shutter etc. are today - in that you can be flexible with it on a shot by shot (or even frame by frame) basis and you would be able to use just the "perfect" frame rate for the needs of the story at that moment.

    We certainly know that different frame rates convey different meanings, so to open that up to creative use, rather than technical limitation seems to be the way forwards.

    Graeme
    www.red.com - 6k Digital Cinema Camera
    Science enables stories. Stories drive science
    FLUT™, Image Processing, Colour Science and Demosaic Algorithms, REDRAY 4K delivery
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #8  
    Senior Member David Battistella's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Firenze, Italia
    Posts
    5,966
    I agree that framerates should be a creative tool. But 48 frames per second also means altering the TimeBase of the image.

    In film shooting 24 and projecting 24 is simple. Shooting 48 and projecting 48 is simple (double the speed of the projection).

    In digital we shoot 24 at a 23.98 timebase, 48 is played back within a 23.98 time base displaying double the number of frames over the same time period.

    If you were in a 29.97 time base and shot 48fps it would fit those frames into a 29.97/59.94 time base.

    I guess I am just pointing out the difference between doing this on film and on RED where on RED you would need to be in a 23.98 timebase because it's digital. If you were going to film you might select 24 as your time base and shoot 48, but then at 48 if you wanted a slomo shot you'd have to go to 96fps for 2x slomo.

    Epic is positioned nicely for this situation because you could do all of this at 4k and not take a resolution hit. R1, not so much because you'd be in 2k cropped just about all the time.

    Then there would be some consideration for sound and retrofitting theaters with film projectors which playback 48fps.

    I think the standard should say at 24fps and we should go to larger frame sizes. I do not think we should stay at 2k and go to 48fps as a standard.

    David
    "Well, isn't that just amazing!"
    Battistella

    Reply With Quote  
     

  9.   Click here to go to the next RED TEAM post in this thread.
  #9  
    I think the goal would be that a single fixed framerate for a project would become an anachronism.

    Graeme
    www.red.com - 6k Digital Cinema Camera
    Science enables stories. Stories drive science
    FLUT™, Image Processing, Colour Science and Demosaic Algorithms, REDRAY 4K delivery
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #10  
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    3,994
    Graeme. Will we ever be able to have multiple project framerates as well as varispeed on single magazines. Say we want to shoot one take at 25fps and playback at 25fps, and the next shoot at 50fps and playback at 50fps (ie NOT for slow motion) ON the camera?
    Director/Digital Camera Operator/2nd AC/DIT/Data Manager
    London, UK.

    Life moves pretty fast. If you don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts