Redcine-x Transcodes to Prores 4444 look WASHED OUT

[Johnny Friday]

Looked at all the files in FCP and here are the results.

Correct gamma compared to RC-X

PR4444
PR422 HQ
PR LT
DPX


Raised GAMMA (blacks) compared to RC-X

DVPROHD
UNCOMPRESSED 10 bit
SHEER
PR Proxy
PR 422


What a Charlie Foxtrot this is.

If I open all of these files in QT the reverse happens with ProRes.

Advice.
Before creating a deliverable. Know what software the files will be edited in. Test. test . test.

David

Yes, that is about what i experienced. ALTHOUGH for my looking at underwater footage with big blue background with raised whites....I can see in MUCH greater detail the washout effect. If i import that pr4444 into FCP it does look better, but still not nearly as good as in RC-X--i would not say that it matches the look, but just has 50% better saturation as compared to viewing it in QT

[Johnny Friday]

Here is a TIFF file that I had worked from Rocketcine-X using dreamcolor monitored from HD-SDI thru AJA to HDMI so viewing and correcting at 10bit with dreamcolor monitor set to "FULL" as colorspace with the Gamma in FULL mode set to 2.2

Looked great on the Dreamcolor monitor, but on my Mac via DVI and ATI 4870HD graphics card at 8bit using Mac's gamma of 2.2 it looks washed out and de-saturated. Not sure if this screenshot will do this rant justice.

Comments?

EDIT: the screenshot does not show anything....since i have no reference.

[Johnny Friday]

Ok....I think I've run out of ideas and tests. I would be perfectly willing to send you guys a clip to see for yourselves what i have tested. Say (as David suggested) a small 2-3 second clip to see for yourselves. It would be however nice if one of you had a dreamcolor to monitor extactly what i see, but at the least a QT prores 4444 clip transcoded may tell???

[Simon Blackledge]

Is this not because the dreamcolour is a wide gamut display ?

going to 8 will clips/distort your chroma in an image no ?

s

[Johnny Friday]

Is this not because the dreamcolour is a wide gamut display ?

going to 8 will clips/distort your chroma in an image no ?

s

I don't think so...In fact have some new examples to show the HUGE change in flavours.

[Johnny Friday]

Here are two screenshots of the EXACT same image BUT one was corrected in Redcine v 20 and the other in Redcine build 221 with redcode QT component 4.1 added.

You'll notice a big difference in the saturation in the two shots. I had originally corrected the RCv20 image using my Dell U2410 and the image showed on my non-calibrated screen nicely, but on a REC.709 it is darker and more saturated--but the difference is not ovewhelming.

The image RC-X-build221 was corrected using RC-X and corrected on my Dreamcolor emulating REC709. Looked great while correcting on the monitor, but when I output a QT it looked terrible and washed out.

CONCLUSION: i can only come to the conclusion (no science--only my eyes and two days of testing) that RC-X build 221 and the new QT component are not outputting the new color-science correctly. It is clear that with Redcine V20 i could get images to look fairly close to what i saw them looking like in Redcine and the prores transcodes, but that is NOT the case in my recent transcodes using build 221.

Comments?? other ideas?

[Johnny Friday]

I can't be the only one experiencing this problem??
This a huge difference.....

[Kaku Ito]

i thought i would test a tiff output vs a qt output to see if there was any difference. BUT, the TIFF matched the QT. So guess that at least there is conformity in that respect. I'm going to continue on with testing here.

TIFF output becomes gamma 1.8 at default even in Snow Leopard, so be careful.

[Kaku Ito]

please post the short r3d.

[Johnny Friday]

TIFF output becomes gamma 1.8 at default even in Snow Leopard, so be careful.

The two images i posted were only screen grabs off of my mac from the original QT files beginning at frame one. So all they are is representative of the color de-saturation effect that i am seeing and represent the problem i see when outputting the prores transcodes. It's quite easy to notice that the old RC held saturation and the new RC-X looses saturation after transcoding to prores.

I'll see about posting two clips tomorrow.